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Yearly warning not to take A-level maths with less than a 7 at GCSE

463 replies

noblegiraffe · 20/08/2024 14:49

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day is coming.

So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a strong correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder.

There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications.

If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade.

This data is from 2019 because obviously more recent data has been screwed up by covid.

If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography).

If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

Yearly warning not to take A-level maths with less than a 7 at GCSE
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CrochetMadRosie · 23/08/2024 21:10

@noblegiraffe Thank you for replying.
They did put the papers in order of those that they thought would be worth getting reviewed and said that one paper definitely wasn't worth getting reviewed.
Obviously they can't give a guarantee that it will work and it's a lot of money to spend if he's still maybe one mark off at the end of it all, but worth it if he has actually got those points!
We'll think some more on it.
Thanks again for replying.

Dibblydoodahdah · 23/08/2024 20:50

At my DS’ school you cannot do A Level maths unless you get an 8 in GCSE maths.

user900000 · 23/08/2024 20:41

It's a shame not all schools offer core maths. DS got a secure 7 in maths but doesn't want to take the A Level. I think it's a shame he can't continue maths alongside his other subjects without doing the A Level.

Ladyface · 23/08/2024 20:07

noblegiraffe · 23/08/2024 19:22

No, Core maths is absolutely fine for foundation students. It would be really good alongside psychology.

Thank you.

ShamblesRock · 23/08/2024 19:53

So after it all going a bit Pete Tong, we are now thinking of dropping FM for economics, eSports is totally off the cards.

Maths with a 7 sounds a good plan though.

noblegiraffe · 23/08/2024 19:37

Araminta1003 · 23/08/2024 19:31

@noblegiraffe - what is your view on Dr Frost Maths? My DC seem to have used that for free extensively to practise. As well as Seneca for Science. And YouTube videos if they don’t understand a concept. Maths seems to be like music practice, little very often goes a very long way.

Dr Frost is very well-thought of in maths education. I use his PowerPoints to teach A-level quite a lot.

I don’t use his homework platform but I would have thought the resources are decent.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 23/08/2024 19:32

CrochetMadRosie · 23/08/2024 11:21

@noblegiraffe Slightly off topic,
but I suddenly thought of you as you're good with maths statistics!

In your experience, what percentage of people who ask for a review of maths a-level results actually get a change up?

DS missed a grade by 4 marks. College reviewed the scripts and thought it would be worth asking for a review and put the papers in order to ask for a review.

We've just heard back about the first paper and it's gone up by one mark so he's still 3 marks short.

DH thinks we should just accept it.
move on and not pay any more money to have the next paper reviewed, but I don't want to look back and wonder 'what if'...

Are there statistics or anecdotal thoughts from your career please
to do with how many people
actually get a grade increase following reviews as opposed to how many don't?

So many people on various forums that had positive results from reviews, but maybe they are more likely to comment than people who didn't?!

There has to be a grade boundary somewhere and people are always going to be 1/2/3 under and I completely get that! It's just frustrating for him to be so close and not get it...

Thank you and apologies if this is completely inappropriate!

If the college have looked at the paper, have they actually found 4 marks that they think should be allocated? Maths mark schemes aren’t that nebulous, I’m surprised that they haven’t said which papers need to be reviewed to get those marks.

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Araminta1003 · 23/08/2024 19:31

@noblegiraffe - what is your view on Dr Frost Maths? My DC seem to have used that for free extensively to practise. As well as Seneca for Science. And YouTube videos if they don’t understand a concept. Maths seems to be like music practice, little very often goes a very long way.

noblegiraffe · 23/08/2024 19:22

No, Core maths is absolutely fine for foundation students. It would be really good alongside psychology.

OP posts:
Ladyface · 23/08/2024 19:19

Can I ask about Core Maths? My dd did gcse foundation maths and got a 5. She wants to do psychology a level and the school are suggesting she does AQA Core Maths to support this. Would a gcse foundation student struggle with this?

ilovemydogandmrobama2 · 23/08/2024 18:51

DS got a 9 in Maths and Further Maths.

He does want to do them both at A level but he has zero interest in science so Maths, Further Maths and History.

He's not sure what he wants to do at uni or generally.

JoshLymanIsHotterThanSam · 23/08/2024 18:16

My DS is taking Maths and Further Maths at A level. He got a high 8 in GCSE (4 marks off a 9). He’s strong at maths and enjoys it, but god this thread has me worried, he has a good work ethic most of the time, but this does lapse occasionally. He’s defo not been set any bridging work which is concerning.

lanthanum · 23/08/2024 18:00

DoublePeonies · 23/08/2024 12:46

@peanutcookie "tough" combinations are subjective. It was a long time ago - before the whole do 4 subjects in Y12 and stop one as AS level. I did Bio, Phys, Chem and maths. Most people would say that's a "tough" combination, however I promise you I'd have found most other subjects harder. My brain works STEM-like. You son has 8s and 9s in the subjects linked to most of those A levels. Sounds like he should enjoy the combination.

Totally agree with this. DD did maths, further maths, chemistry and French - all subjects frequently mentioned as difficult. However for her, I think any other subject would have been harder. (It turned out to be particularly light on essays - at an academic writing workshop she was asked what how long her longest essay was expected to be at A-level. 350 words - unless you count the UCAS personal statement!)

Lampzade · 23/08/2024 14:12

peanutcookie · 23/08/2024 12:39

DS got a 9 yesterday in Maths and 8,9 in Double Science. He has enrolled for Maths, Further Maths, Economics and Physics. He is quite excited to these subjects and confident but a friend who is a maths teacher has said that this is a really tough combo. My thinking is that he can always drop the FM but now I'm worrying a bit if he is overloading himself. The unis he is thinking of prefer FM if applying for Economics

My dd did that combination for her A levels but dropped the further maths because she didn’t see the point of doing an extra A level when she didn’t have to. She is studying economics at university
However, if your ds is driven he may as well give it a go with the four A levels

elozabet · 23/08/2024 14:01

Hoppinggreen · 22/08/2024 12:34

Another question if @noblegiraffe or anyone else knowledgeable would be kind enough to answer.
DS is considering Psychology, Physics and Business or Economics for A level - would a 6 in Maths prevent him doing those? He will be going to 6th form college as his school doesnt have a 6th form. I knwo they are maths heavy but DS lijes subjects he can apply, so just maths not so much but maths he is using for something else he prefers and is better at.

6 in maths is fine for psychology and economics, but it's generally recommended to take maths alongside physics. Our school likes a 7 in maths as a minimum to take physics and preferably to take maths A level as well.

Would psychology, economics and business not be a better fit?

Glittertwins · 23/08/2024 13:56

@noblegiraffe - thank you for posting that bridging work document. We were given work (already done) but have no idea if is correct so this one is really useful with the answers for checking.

elozabet · 23/08/2024 13:51

peanutcookie · 23/08/2024 12:39

DS got a 9 yesterday in Maths and 8,9 in Double Science. He has enrolled for Maths, Further Maths, Economics and Physics. He is quite excited to these subjects and confident but a friend who is a maths teacher has said that this is a really tough combo. My thinking is that he can always drop the FM but now I'm worrying a bit if he is overloading himself. The unis he is thinking of prefer FM if applying for Economics

If he's good at maths, it's a good combo.

GU24Mum · 23/08/2024 13:45

@noblegiraffe and @lanthanum - thanks very much.

Once he's back from Reading, we'll sort the final choices.

elozabet · 23/08/2024 13:44

noblegiraffe · 20/08/2024 15:29

If someone has a good reason for their 6 at GCSE like illness, bereavement or no teacher, and they should have done much better, then they could potentially do well at A-level if they work hard to catch up. But if the 6 is something that they worked their socks off for and is the pinnacle of their GCSE achievement, then it's much less likely.

I agree with this.

Same applies to other subjects like the sciences, although would accept 6's most sciences whereas needs a 7 for maths.

Sometimes, no amount of hard work is going to help.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but often the kindest thing you can do is not let them on the course.

ShamblesRock · 23/08/2024 13:38

Oh well, it's all gone to pot. The college won't allow him to any A Levels even A level maths ( he got a 7).

We are looking into other options, and hopefully have one that will be a bit more accommodating.

sleekcat · 23/08/2024 13:04

peanutcookie · 23/08/2024 12:39

DS got a 9 yesterday in Maths and 8,9 in Double Science. He has enrolled for Maths, Further Maths, Economics and Physics. He is quite excited to these subjects and confident but a friend who is a maths teacher has said that this is a really tough combo. My thinking is that he can always drop the FM but now I'm worrying a bit if he is overloading himself. The unis he is thinking of prefer FM if applying for Economics

My son did this combination. He only got a C originally for GCSE maths but got either A or A* at A Level. I think they advised against it due to his maths grade, but he pushed for it. To be honest, he was probably always capable but he was lazy before sixth form. Anyway, he found these subjects fine for him, he enjoyed them and it led him to uni.

AugustDieSheMustTheAutumnWindsBlowChillyAndCold · 23/08/2024 12:53

WinkyTinky · 22/08/2024 11:34

Argh! Having looked at the grade boundaries, DS missed getting a 9 for maths by one mark. Is it worth appealing? There is a letter in his envelope which says his teacher thinks he could appeal. I haven't told him about the grade boundaries yet as he might just be frustrated on missing out so narrowly, so will broach the subject when I get in from work... This is the one 9 he really wanted!

I remember being told that candidates whose results are within 1 or 2 marks of a grade boundary are automatically remarked. This was in the context of OCR A level Maths, I don't know if it's generally applied, and if it's just an arithmetical check of the marks or a full look at the student's papers.

It would have been a few years ago and also I can't remember where I heard it - either in a Maths department meeting or at an OCR meeting for teachers - but I have believed it ever since. 😔

Has anyone else heard that?

DoublePeonies · 23/08/2024 12:46

@peanutcookie "tough" combinations are subjective. It was a long time ago - before the whole do 4 subjects in Y12 and stop one as AS level. I did Bio, Phys, Chem and maths. Most people would say that's a "tough" combination, however I promise you I'd have found most other subjects harder. My brain works STEM-like. You son has 8s and 9s in the subjects linked to most of those A levels. Sounds like he should enjoy the combination.

peanutcookie · 23/08/2024 12:39

DS got a 9 yesterday in Maths and 8,9 in Double Science. He has enrolled for Maths, Further Maths, Economics and Physics. He is quite excited to these subjects and confident but a friend who is a maths teacher has said that this is a really tough combo. My thinking is that he can always drop the FM but now I'm worrying a bit if he is overloading himself. The unis he is thinking of prefer FM if applying for Economics

peanutcookie · 23/08/2024 12:36

Hoppinggreen · 22/08/2024 12:34

Another question if @noblegiraffe or anyone else knowledgeable would be kind enough to answer.
DS is considering Psychology, Physics and Business or Economics for A level - would a 6 in Maths prevent him doing those? He will be going to 6th form college as his school doesnt have a 6th form. I knwo they are maths heavy but DS lijes subjects he can apply, so just maths not so much but maths he is using for something else he prefers and is better at.

Hi @Hoppinggreen I teach Business Studies A Level. At my school you would need 6 in both Maths and English to do either Business or Economics. Business Studies is about 25% numerical and its not particularly hard maths, they just don't give you all the info you need to work out the answer so it's not as straightforward as just remembering the correct equation and then inputting the correct figures as you would have to do one or two steps before you can use the equation. Plus it's more about interpreting the numbers into how it will impact the business. I had a student who was very able but fell apart whenever it came to a mathsy question, in his mocks there was a 20 marker essay that was maths based and he couldn't do it. He still came out with an A* for his final grade