VAT and Bursary impact

No they aren't for profit. They are either charities or not for profit. For most of them they put the surplus into bursaries and scholarships.

We are rural so yes very different to urban schools. That's the point though, some people find it incredulous that there are areas and schools which don't match their own experiences.

No problem. Choose private if you can afford it.

But don't whinge about paying tax.

And in our area there isn't so we took the decision to go indy to give her access to those because arts, music and sport are important to us.
This is the problem, there is massive inequality in the state system. Until that's rectified people won't stop choosing private.

And in our area there isn't so we took the decision to go indy to give her access to those because arts, music and sport are important to us.
This is the problem, there is massive inequality in the state system. Until that's rectified people won't stop choosing private.

Yes, and that is the reason why people who live in places like that should not say "there are no choirs or sport activities" because for majority of country it sounds odd. Places with the provision as in your area are not represneting the majorty of country. Trust me, in most schools in Uk there is a decent sport provision

This was my experience.

I looked at state and private schools for secondary for DD after a horrendous (state) primary.

None of the private schools would touch her with a barge pole.

Her lovely (state) secondary put in the support she needed from day 1, applied for an EHCP within the first term, and it was agreed within 6 months - the support for DD didn't change because it was there from the start, but it meant the school got the extra funding.

The whole 'but we neeeeeed private because of SEN' is largely BS.

We are rural so yes very different to urban schools. That's the point though, some people find it incredulous that there are areas and schools which don't match their own experiences.

We are rural so yes very different to urban schools. That's the point though, some people find it incredulous that there are areas and schools which don't match their own experiences.

You seem to live in a very strange place.

The national chain mine went to the week before last ran 8.30 to 5.30 with drop off from 8am and pick up at 6pm for an extra fee. That’s not unusual

I’m sort of in the opposite position. We applied to 3 local, small private schools for our autistic son with ADHD believing he would struggle in a large state mainstream - all 3 turned him down. Quite shockingly, the SENCO of one private school which had been recently justifying its existence by quoting the high number of pupils with SEN it supported (landowner was trying to kick them off the site and put an SEN school in its place) gave my son a multiple choice test with lots of inference in it and then was surprised when he became overwhelmed and went out and sat on the stairs - like she had set him up to fail!! We had thought the school would be perfect, within walking distance, small class sizes and a small campus with the same number of kids in the entire school as there are in one year of our local state schools. But no, these schools had plenty of people queuing up to pay their fees, presumably without the SEN my son has, so it was off to our 4th choice state school for him - 240 other kids in his year, yet one of the private schools said they thought he would ‘struggle moving between classrooms’ of their tiny school!

Anyway, his state mainstream has been fantastic. The teachers are empathetic and caring and approachable, and school leadership listen and are responsive. I’ve had to put a lot of effort in to communicate with his teachers and several meetings with the SENCO and Deputy Head, but my son has successfully finished year 7 and is not (yet!) freaking out about going back in year 8. He is also exceeding expectations in maths and science, so he’s not just ‘got by’.

I know all kids with SEN are different and most schools seem to be different, but I wanted to share the fact that not all state schools fail SEN kids and in fact some excel in teaching them. More resources would help them to support these kids even better and let’s hope this Labour govt provides that. But as well as there being state schools that support SEN well, my own experience of private schools is that they are happy to ditch kids with SEN for those without and it has completely changed my view of private education.

One other point, VAT on school fees won’t impact LEAs paying the fees for SEN kids at private schools as they will reclaim the VAT from HMRC. Also the govt has said that kids with acute SEN whose needs can only be met by private schools will not have to pay VAT.

In line with fee paying holiday clubs. No holiday clubs around here run longer times.
So you are now knocking them for running 100s of hours of free childcare each year because they don't exactly tie in with working hours. Well neither does primary school does it yet all kids go to that! Indy schools really can't win, criticised for absolutely everything they do.

"the sports teams, the choir, playing in the music ensembles at national competitions etc. They definitely would not get those opportunities at the private school"
What you have listed are exactly the reasons that many choose indy schools, because those aren't available in their local state schools. That's why many of our top athletes go to Indy schools on sports scholarships. DDs Indy school has produced 8 England Rugby team members and multiple England Test cricket players as just 2 examples. DD has travelled with the school choir to sing at Ely, Durham and York cathedrals and sung at the Sage in Gateshead. Those opportunities wouldn't have been available in any of the local state schools

@twistyizzy even in NE you will find faith schools and trust me they all are "mad singers".
As for funding it doesn't work basing on the assumption: NE has to get less per pupil
All schools are funded on a per pupil basis. There is a National Funding Formula to make sure that a school’s per-pupil funding reflects a number of factors including the characteristics of their pupils (like how many pupils have fallen behind), how many pupils receive free school meals, the geographic location of the school (to reflect different salary costs) and much more.

I don't think that choir and sport clubs are native to London only. Especially sports clubs are available in most of schools nation wide. You may be in an unlucky catchment of an exception to this rule.

"In every faith school" the majority of state schools aren't faith schools
London is very different to out of London. We are in the NE where funding per pupil for state is lower and there are some of the lowest outcomes in England. In our local schools the clubs are: football or netball. That's it plus no speciallist PE staff. No choir because it isn't "cool" etc.

If you are stuck in a London centric bubble it can be hard to imagine life outside of the capital but trust me, not at state schools have the opportunities you are taking about.

Not exactly helpful hours for parents who work and need childcare.

No they aren't for profit. They are either charities or not for profit. For most of them they put the surplus into bursaries and scholarships.

DDs Indy school runs free activity weeks during the school holidays. 9am-3pm for 5 days including lunch + snacks. Free for children within a certain radius of the school. That's ever school holiday + 2 weeks over summer

there would be an entire cohort of professional parents supporting the state school with their time and fundraising efforts

😂 these professional parents (doctors, lawyers, businessmen) do not have time to invest and fundraise! Children of affluent parents going into the state system are not going to automatically elevate state schools by osmosis! The only impact it will have is forcing children who would have been eligible for that school to a worse school by making catchment areas smaller.

And I confirmed that part @twistyizzy . The private schools are not allowed profit status in UK. They reinvest their profit in school from marketing, through facilities, and extracurricular activities.

DD has travelled with the school choir to sing at Ely, Durham and York cathedrals and sung at the Sage in Gateshead. Those opportunities wouldn't have been available in any of the local state schools

In every faith state school ( in particular Catholic) every child is in the school choir, which is a challenge for a non musical kids. Apart from that they have the special selective choir that travels to all competition. More singing than you can imagine including local churches representing the school group on Sunday.

I live in London, I cannot think about single school in my Borough that doesn't have a choir or wide range of sport clubs available for all kids after or before school and advanced sessions for squads.
Every school sends the representatives to the County Sports day in June.

I sometimes have a feeling that people who send their kids to private schools didn't look at the provision in the state.

Whatever people's stance on the vat policy is, I'm sure everyone can agree that it's cruel to uproot a child in the middle of their schooling let alone the middle of the year!