What to ask at grammar school open day

I really would not ask a y7 about bullying. Just unfair. In primary schools there’s a great knowledge held by the parents, and the teachers. Some will have dc at the schools already and will know the schools very well. There might be a few who have dc who aren’t happy but I bet most will be. Where op
lives, it’s not difficult to ask around! Dc will only go to one of 3 state schools if a DD.

These schools clearly have options details available to parents. However y4 to y11 A level choices is some years and subjects change. Most parents accept the grammars have a very good curriculum that suits the vast majority.They have Oxbridge dc, those studying medicine, MFLs etc and many here find these schools are terrific and tend not to worry about minuutae. As the OP found at the open day - a very positive school!

@Scottishgirl85 A lot of parents choose the grammar DCs friends are going to. Hence you get swings one way or the other.

I have friends who didn’t tutor (plus us) and had very bright dc (not genius level here though!) Others tutored like mad and still dc didn’t get in. Dc felt like huge failures. Money spent that the family could not afford. I would be inclined to practice some tests but doing too much stops other activities. My DD did brownies, Music centre choir & string orchestra, school orchestra, netball and swimming in y5 and 6.

I would say JC take the curriculum at a slower pace but DC do have good opportunities. Also these days, very many from the junior school will go there. Look at their news pages and you see plenty going on. They also report in Wendover News I think. It’s a community school and behaves like one! You would probably have the option of a grammar 6th form.

Obviously there are differences between private and JC or Misbourne but if you might struggle to pay for 7 years, then grammar for 6th form is an option. I’ve not seen anyone I know leave JC though. I would say they are a bit light on hard sciences in the 6th form but you might not have to worry about that. However if you did, that’s a necessary change. Although two dc I know did hard sciences at uni from there.

It’s perfectly possible for academic parents not to have the highest flying Dc but we all
want happy DC. For your borderline DC, you might prefer JC - top of one school is better than being bottom of another which can be stressful - as over tutored dc find out. I’ve seen it lead to bed wetting and school refusal as well as poor behaviour. I’m sure you won’t be that parent, but honestly, JC is fine!

And try to talk to older pupils rather than younger ones. The older ones will have more experience and are likely to be more open and honest, telling you the "warts n all" rather than, say, year 7s or 8s who will have limited experience, certainly of "exam" years, and may be more inclined to tell you what they think they should rather than what they really want to!

At one of our open day visits, the tours were by sixth formers, who were very candid about the realities of the day to day life in school, and some comments were really probably not what the teachers/management would have wanted them to say!

At a different school, the tours were by year 7s who, to be brutally brunt, didn't really have much to say at all, and basically just walked us round the school, couldn't really answer questions about GCSE/A level options (obviously), and seemed very tight lipped about answering questions about bullying, what the teachers were like, etc.

TBH open evenings are often rammed and you don't really get chance to talk to any teachers.

You will get a chance to get the 'feel' of a school. Ask your pupil tour guides what they like most or dislike about secondary school.

Again. Curriculum info is on the web sites. I know a DD who has gone to Cambridge for maths from one of these schools. They can teach maths! There’s also a huge amount of info in their newsletters and one used to have a language specialism and one performing arts. Neither school will fail any child with their curriculum but one school is larger - the girls only one.

I only know boys that have been to the coed one. All DDs friends went to the girls’ grammar. None chose the coed. Probably changed now but the coed grammar was seen as second best. It tends to have a different intake - less leafy lane and probably more down to earth parents. The boys I know who went there are great but some of their friends ???? Sadly not the best! However a while ago now.

A lot will depend on your child's interests and what subjects they're best at.

If they excel at Maths, ask whether the school does Further Maths at GCSE and A level?, Whether they enter a team for inter-school Maths competitions, etc.

If they're into football, check that football is actually an option during games lessons (this caught out my son, he "assumed" his school would do football, but they had both winter terms of only Rugby!).

Do they offer separate sciences or just the 2 or 3 combined science option?

What languages do they offer at GCSE level? Do they do classics (i.e. Latin or Greek).

If they're into drama, ask about the school theatre, what kind of "performances" do they do? How many per year?

Schools vary enormously, so you need to find which is the best "match" to your child's expectations and requirements.

Perhaps most importantly, ask existing pupils about pastoral care, bullying etc - all schools have a very similar copy & paste "policy", but you need to know from pupils about the reality of the what the school actually does, not what they say they do!

Don't know the area at all, but don't assume that just because a kid has got into a grammar school, they actually want to be in school! There will be behaviour issues at most schools.

@Scottishgirl85 Just to add: both grammar open days you want to go to are complete bun fights! Hundreds and hundreds of wannabes there. You won’t get any opportunity to ask much. You will just feel that it’s an overcrowded space. I didn’t even think y4 parents went. No one I know did as it leads to even more over crowding. Also, you don’t learn much. Maybe take a view on the head? Look at classrooms, think there’s not much outside space and have a chat with a pupil if other parents let you! These are basic tours, not much else. Better to find a pupil of the schools and quiz them!

@Scottishgirl85 Hi!!! Near me!

I have many friends with DC who have been to John Colet. Dc of Head Teacher, PhDs, uni lecturers, teachers, nurses, accountants, company directors, etc so people who value education. It’s been a school that drops the ball occasionally but is overwhelmingly supported by parents. The DC I know all thrived there and all have gone to very good universities.

I would say I have known two parents who didn’t want dc to go there. They made the lives of dc miserable by making them do 12 plus with a huge amount of tutoring. Both got into Chesham High (you would never get in now!) but they didn’t thrive and one had serious behaviour issues which I won’t elaborate on. The 12 plus route is essentially closed off now and most don’t try if they get JC or Misbourne.

Therefore, most parents do accept their dc will be happy at JC and support them to do well. Many we know have done fantastically well. Also JC will have around 30% high achievers. Thats a strong group to work with and they have decent sats results. By the time the dust settles after the 11 plus, the wise parent is positive and supports the school so you won’t find many not liking the school and unhappy. Many cannot afford private (house prices!!) so it’s JC or nothing but others can and don’t necessarily avoid JC!

A few I’ve known have gone to Pipers and Berkhamsted. You have a choice of these two as day schools. I would look at both but both are selective and I’ve known dc not get into either.

Lots of the answers will be on the web site too. The school won’t be offering a bespoke education for every dc. Parents do have to go with the flow to some extent.

@Scottishgirl85 I live in the same area as you I expect. When we looked for DD we found parents at our primary overwhelmingly wanted AHS for the girls. Not a single one went to SHF. Neither school is pretentious. Pipers is!!! I know quite a few who have been. I would move to Wendover. Or Waddesdon. They have the best, well liked and well supported secondaries.

I always thought there's little point in asking questions in an open day : The preference was more or less in the mind by intensive research upfront. Lots of "outstanding"/"good" schools are headed by a headteacher whose attitude is less than welcoming or warm. It's not uncommon that the balance is tilted towards school on the side with power.

But the questions you suggested are really valid and extremely tangible ones. I wish I've seen them a year earlier.

However, the reality is we as parents are unlikely given the chance to ask all these questions in the state school system. If we get to ask two, it would be already quite something. With private ones, it might be a different story.

If you use the search facility on MN for Pipers Corner you may find some threads useful.
The recent feedback has been less than positive.

As someone who went to the bucks co Ed and now teaches at a single sex elsewhere…

what extra curricular provision and encouragement/requirement/support?
what pastoral care and how are day to day issues handled?
quality of careers guidance and meeting of the Gatsby benchmarks - who comes to their careers fair or similar events?
quantity of homework and how is it managed?
ability of students to handle stress
How long have staff been there?
How are classes determined? Eg setting etc, who does what language
do they do triple science?
how many gcse options and how do they work (what free choices)
what are class sizes like at gcse and a level - pick a few a levels to ask about across the different areas eg science, hums. It’ll show you the different level of provision it doesn’t matter what child is interested in.

I love the question of whether you’d want a younger sibling to go.

fwiw I adores the Floyd, but it was quite a while ago!! Great ethos ‘confidence without arrogance’ as the unofficial motto

Genuine question @Theoldwrinkley do you think things have changed since you attended a single sex school?

If you're shown round by a pupil, ask whether they would want their younger brother or sister to follow them to the school. I have had some very enlightening responses to that question over the years.

Ask about their pastoral care, how they support the students emotionally, who the students go to if they're worried or upset about something, if they're ill, that kind of thing. Try to see if they talk about how they ensure that poorer children aren't excluded/use of Pupil Premium - even thought it might not be relevant to you, if they make efforts to look after the financially vulnerable families, it suggests they care about everybody, not just wealthy, high achieving and perfect in every way kids.

Behaviour policies and the like are mostly universal because they're a legal requirement - but do they actually care about the kids' security and happiness as well as their results? You can get an idea about whether staff come across and warm and friendly (or restrained but caring) instead of 'Our results are...you must do this or you will be punished...we practice zero tolerance of <anything but bullying/abuse, as those you want to be zero tolerance> /...everybody wants us, we don't want you, you should be grateful to us and here's our forms for making contributions by standing order, as if you don't make this contribution, we'll know you don't care about your child/etc'.

Do the staff look happy, are they smiling at one another or is there a harassed and exhausted looking person/couple of people doing all the work whilst the important people stride around, barking orders at them? A poor attitude to staff often translates to a poor attitude towards children that are struggling for any reason.

Academically able children can be vulnerable in different ways, as well as in the same way as less so. Neurodiversity is just as prevalent in the group as anywhere else. So you need a place that cares about the kids, not just the results or prestige.

I went to girls grammar in Bucks, and always vowed that any daughter of mine (I only had sons, as it turned out) would not go single sex grammar. They made a big play of 'joint events' with neighbouring boys grammar (where both my sons went) which was rubbish. When we looked round boys grammar for our sons they were still saying about 'joint events'. Rubbish. But the offer was good and appropriate education-wise for our non-assessed Aspergers son.
Anyone I've met who went to local co-ed grammar are always more rounded individuals with a broader interest in life.
Apologies for long post.

Thanks - and potentially likewise!

We are in the same position, only looking at the one local secondary in case of not passing 11+ though. Also have a Y4 girl. Which private school are you looking at?