VAT and removal of 50% cap on scholarships

If the pupils have a good school it's just a tiny % of what makes them successful.

That may be a comforting view, but it doesn't reflect reality.

"The Sutton Trust’s Leading People (2016), and the Social Mobility Commission’s Elitist Britain (2014) painted a picture of a country whose power structures are dominated by a narrow section of the population: the 7% who attend independent schools, and the roughly 1% who graduate from just two universities, Oxford and Cambridge. Looking at the five years since 2014, Elitist Britain 2019 shows isolated pockets of positive change, but a picture characterised by persistent inequality."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/elitist-britain-2019/elitist-britain-2019-the-educational-backgrounds-of-britains-leading-people

Exactly and even though we are trying to do an excellent job, the state system needs 15 billion, not 1 billion. It's a massive lie that the money they will get from vat is going to work in any shape or form. Schools individually need too much money plus teachers can only work with that pupils they have. If the pupils have a good school it's just a tiny % of what makes them successful. A HUGE and overriding success recipe is the parenting, home life, their personality and genetics.

Wasn't a thing in mine.

If they pass the 11+ then of course they can take a grammar school place, just like anyone else.

As if the grammars don’t have over tutored dc from the state sector!!!

This sounds like your wishful thinking

Plenty of bright dc in independent schools! My DD got a grammar school place. Lots did in DD2s old prep too. The big difficulty these dc, if forced to leave an independent school, won’t find state school places available. So more might just take the place at the grammar at 11. Then less places for appeals.

Why do you think they would fail in state schools? Fail what? What evidence do you have? You seem to have prejudice and stereotyping guiding you?

7% is over 35,000 children, 1% is 5000 children. That is a lot of families with kids getting luxury education discounted or free each year. Did not realise it was that much

Apart from VAT, fees were rising disproportionately anyway and many where being priced out. And with inflation/COL etc - I am sure many parents start to feel less generous.

Hopefully, the economy grows and people prosper and therefore are not only able to pay VAT but also continue with the bursaries. If one is lucky enough to be wealthy, it does feel really good to know your fees are not only supporting your child, but many others (via VAT, paying for an unused state place and subsidising bursary places).

Any incoming government needs to have a plan to support state schools, where the majority go and this won't touch the sides. I really hope the population will hold them to account cos the majority of private parents will keep their kids in and their kids will still enjoy a better education than the average state kid - unless the government really prioritises education and funds it properly. If most state schools are excellent, there would be no need or very little need to pay and that would be the real existential threat to private schools

On the contrary, private schools are full of kids who would struggle to succeed in state schools without all that extra support. They're not going to get into grammar schools so I suspect private tutors will be doing very well in the near future.

Agreed. Lots of state school kids being tutored to within an inch of their lives.

They do provide extra and I doubt they would fail. In London most are very selective so in the state system they would be naturally upper quartiles anyway. Not all but most. It baffles me how many misconceptions people have about independent schools and the kids and teachers and parents and misconceptions / stereotypes about state school kids, parents and teachers. They are mostly all stereotypes and misconceptions,

I’m not sure they do provide that much extra support. They provide an excellent all round education. Usually great sport and many clubs, plus great drama and music. Many dc in them are self starters and reasonably confident. Boarding dc do prep with no parents around. From what I’ve observed the parents in the state schools who fall over themselves giving DC help.

I do wonder how many would-be private school kids will now fail at state school, without all that extra help and support that private schools provide.

I know :( but it’s so bad for the bright and talented kids who miss out. The extra curricular is usually exceptional . Ironically you are also paying for state school places without using them. The numpties and envy cloth heads don’t seem to realise nor understand the other side of the fence.

Only 7% of private school kids get any bursary, and just 1.7% get all their fees covered this way.

So it's never been a significant means to level the uneven playing field created by private schooling.

More like a way to justify the tax breaks they get.

@Hatty999 , I agree! It's awful, but if my fees are going up 20% then it better be going to my children.

It unfortunately can't go both ways.

We can't be demonised for paying school fees and then when they say we have to pay an extra 20%, be demonised for saying we don't want to pay for state school children to come to the school for free. Or for the local state schools to use our facilities for free. With the extra money being given to them, they can pay full price for them.

This.

I don't blame you. Rest assured the clever people (who don't necessarily benefit directly from independent education) know all of this extra stuff goes on. Unfortunately it's also the British pea-brain population that are allowed to vote. They live with jealousy of the Jones's and will always believe that their lot is the fault of others and not themselves.

That is really sad :( It helps it not be so elitist

Our school has already said that it will stop all bursaries and the extensive offerings that they give the local schools for free ( which costs the school millions a year) if the VAT goes ahead. They will save the money they spend on work with the local community so that they don’t have to pass on all the VAT rise to parents. And so they should! The parents would be up in arms if the school carried on spending their money on others who are so happy to see them being shafted.

I am so pissed off with this policy that I am stopping absolutely everything that I currently do to help the local state schools - my DH and I are both governors of local schools, I volunteer to listen to children read one morning a week, I donate all our grown out of books to the school library and I even tutor some children who are behind in their maths for free once a week (I am an ex teacher). Well no more! I shall now offer all of these services to the private school my children attend so they can save a little bit of money!

I also run my own tutoring business and I don’t claim everything that I could back against Tax as I thought that there were others that needed it more than me. I am now going to claim back every Penny for every little thing I can justify as a taxable expense. I reckon I can bring my earnings down below the tax threshold so I won’t pay any at all - this extra money can pay the 20% and I’ll have some extra. It’s my small FUCK YOU to Labour but it will make me feel better!

There would be no point in charitable status if you’re paying VAT, and I should think most independent schools will quietly drop all links and focus solely on serving the needs and aspirations of their students and the parent base.

That will mean any sharing of facilities or any joint educational programs etc will cease. And I should thing most parents will expect, if not demand, that the school concentrate 100% of their time, manpower and management on educating their kids, like what they are paying for.

You can’t have it both ways. Either they are a charity or they are not. If not then their purpose is discrete not connected : To educate their attendants students. Full stop.

Bursaries are probably a condition of their charitable status

I hope that bursaries will be stopped at our school if VAT is added to the fees.

That is just one example and thousands of others would never be like that. The only judging appears to come from people with a chip on their shoulder saying those who have more than them look down on them. It is nonsense.