Where to move: Ham, Teddington or Twickenham

Hellenhellen · 2024-05-20T16:09:13+00:00

Hi Mums, I am moving to London in a month with 2 daughters, 8 and 12 yo and I am trying to choose from below: 1. Grey Court School - Ham 1. Orleans Park School - Twickenham 1. Teddington School - Teddington My rental budget is £2500-3000 pcm. I will find the best primary possible around the above secondary schools for my little one. I want my girls to be safe, and I would like to have some outdoor life. I went to Ham last month, and it felt a bit too quiet, whereas Orleans Park seemed a bit too crowded with the busy road. Unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to check on Teddington School, but I see there are some lovely riverside apartments around it, which I like. I work from home at the moment, and I don't see that changing in the next 2 years, but it can change once kids can stay on their own at home. I am worried about choosing with little information and getting stuck later because of the schools. Any ideas or advice are appreciated.

Original poster

Hellenhellen · 16/09/2024 13:54

Hellooo Mums! Hello @poppybuttons
My daughter is offered a place at Teddington and we are thrilled. She is still at home waiting for the TS to do the registration. It happened on the day of the panel took place last week and we received an email from AFC saying a place become available in TS during the panel happening. AFC sent the phone number of the school saying we should continue the process with them. we contacted on Thursday but they said they are busy and we have to wait until they get back to us. DD2 was easily registered with St John's Wood and she started on the 4th with everyone else. The school administration at St John's is amazing. I guess TS is a big school and they have a lot to do, and DD1 keeps praying to start asap. It is a happy ending for me, as our home is right between two schools and can't wait to settle.
All mums on this forum helped me so much, which I am so grateful for 🙏

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poppybuttons · 15/09/2024 17:46

@Hellenhellen , hope all has gone well and your 12 yr old has a school place and the primary school has worked out.

Original poster

Hellenhellen · 12/08/2024 09:18

thank you mums- I will let you know how it goes

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SmileLady · 10/08/2024 20:35

I hope your transition to the area goes well. It's a great place to live.

SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn · 09/08/2024 22:44

If you live near Teddington school then Hampton High is one of the closest schools to you. RPA is miles away but kids from the same Hampton, Hampton Hill primary schools are going to either HH or Teddington

Curdled · 09/08/2024 22:40

Fingers crossed - good luck!

Original poster

Hellenhellen · 09/08/2024 19:51

Thank you @Curdled . So we had the call with the AFC person who will present my DD on the 11th at the panel. He went through all the schools in Richmond borough with me, asking what I was thinking of them. I wasn't expecting it, and I did not have a great idea of all the schools as we were only interested in the ones nearest to us. so I took it as it went, and we chatted through, saying RPA and Hampton High would be too far, she could be left out in the religious schools, etc.

He said headteachers don't welcome the idea of a child picking up her/his sibling due to safeguarding purposes. So I asked not to put it then.

I sent him my DS's school report, which is pretty decent. He mentioned that academic achievement doesn't make much difference, but he will note it. The same goes for her sports interests. I said she is on the school team for volleyball and table tennis, and she loved the sports grounds in both Teddington and Grey Court, and he said he would make a note of it.

He also said GC and OP are pretty far from us, so they would not be pressured to provide us with a place. But then we talked through all the schools, which I later found much farther away than GC and OP.

I felt a bit down after all.

Meanwhile, when I asked about rejections and appeals, he was surprised that we hadn't received the rejection letter yet. He said he would ask it to be sent asap, and maybe I may consider an appeal to Teddington by the week schools start. The reason for the timing is that he thinks we may be offered a place by then, and also, even if we appealed now, he said appeals need 30 school days to be evaluated, and it will be October by then, and DD would be placed at a school by then.

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Curdled · 09/08/2024 08:36

Hellenhellen · 09/08/2024 00:53

I am so thankful for this website and its mums!

Honestly, I was only waiting for the admissions to get their lists sorted and confirm the no-returners. I thought they would offer a place within the first 1-2 weeks of school opening, as they advised earlier (they can only provide once the leaver is registered with another school), so I didn't consider being rejected. Still, from what the AFC officer wrote, it seems/may be the case.

I will do the school run for the younger DD to primary school. My older DD needs to get used to the country and local transport, and until then, I will have to give her a lift if her school is far away. Besides that, I can't think of why Teddington has to offer her a place. I mean, psychologically, she would feel more confident if she could make a start at a school near home as everything would be new to her.

An appeal panel would expect a secondary school student to be able to travel independently and, while they would be understanding of the "new to the country" argument, it would be too temporary to carry much weight. They might be more sympathetic if your elder child was responsible for picking up your younger child from primary school while you are working elsewhere, but only if there were compelling reasons why you couldn't use a childminder for that. As that isn't the case, you would be heavily reliant on weaknesses in the school's case for being full. You might be able to find previous appeal statistics on their website - the local authority asks all schools to publish them - most do, some don't.

Nevertheless, the FAP process will have to offer you a place in the borough, and Hampton Wick train station is handy for travel to most areas, so journey times won't be excessive.

Original poster

Hellenhellen · 09/08/2024 00:58

Br00m · 07/08/2024 23:37

Hi, OP

My eldest (a boy) is at Teddington, and will be in Y9 in September, so if you do end up with a place there for your daughter, PM me if you want to talk about anything.
My youngest is in the school year above your youngest, but not at St.John's, but she has a local friend who will be in Y4 the same as your littlest, and her father is Turkish - if I can help facilitate a playdate in advance, I'll try.

Welcome to Teddington!

Thank you,@Br00m ; it's lovely to e-meet you! That is a great offer indeed! my DD would be so excited about this. I will PM you now

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Original poster

Hellenhellen · 09/08/2024 00:53

I am so thankful for this website and its mums!

Honestly, I was only waiting for the admissions to get their lists sorted and confirm the no-returners. I thought they would offer a place within the first 1-2 weeks of school opening, as they advised earlier (they can only provide once the leaver is registered with another school), so I didn't consider being rejected. Still, from what the AFC officer wrote, it seems/may be the case.

I will do the school run for the younger DD to primary school. My older DD needs to get used to the country and local transport, and until then, I will have to give her a lift if her school is far away. Besides that, I can't think of why Teddington has to offer her a place. I mean, psychologically, she would feel more confident if she could make a start at a school near home as everything would be new to her.

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Curdled · 08/08/2024 07:48

... so in the op's case it might be justifiable to lodge an appeal for Teddington School (by far the closest) to mitigate the risk of the FAP offering a school at the other end of the borough, then withdraw it if the FAP offers a relatively convenient school. But, unless there is a need we don't know about, it would seem unreasonable to lodge appeals for every desirable school on the Twickenham side of the borough.

Curdled · 08/08/2024 07:17

What MarchingFrogs says is technically right, but ... to win an appeal you need to demonstrate that a) the school that rejected your application did so incorrectly for some reason or b) your child's need for a school place is greater than the school's case for being too full to admit your child. Those are very high bars. You have a greater chance of winning an appeal if your child doesn't have any place at all, or a place at the opposite end of the borough to where you live. Preference for another school carries no weight - you would need a specific, compelling and provable reason (e.g. "my child has mobility issues, so needs a school with an elevator" or "the appeal school is the only school that can keep my child safe from x,y,z threat"). Appeals panels don't have much sympathy with appellants who appear to be just trying to avoid less popular schools.

Some people will suggest you appeal anyway because you have a right to, and/or "nothing to lose". But others would see that as irresponsible because every appeal creates a volume of admin work for the appeals service and for the school. The school has to pay the local authority appeals service for every appeal lodged, even if it is later withdrawn.

MarchingFrogs · 08/08/2024 00:13

There won't be time for an appeal to be heard before September 11th, but the FAP being invoked doesn't negate your normal rights of appeal and there is nothing to stop you starting the process asap for any or all of the schools for which you have been turned down. You may be lucky and the school which takes your DC through the Fair Access Protocol Iis one of the ones you have already identified as a preference (or even luckier and get a phone call offering a waiting list place at one of them on the second day of term), but you could be found a place at a less desirable / convenient school.

You can always withdraw appeals, if a place you are happy with is offered beforehand.

Br00m · 07/08/2024 23:37

Hi, OP

My eldest (a boy) is at Teddington, and will be in Y9 in September, so if you do end up with a place there for your daughter, PM me if you want to talk about anything.
My youngest is in the school year above your youngest, but not at St.John's, but she has a local friend who will be in Y4 the same as your littlest, and her father is Turkish - if I can help facilitate a playdate in advance, I'll try.

Welcome to Teddington!

Curdled · 07/08/2024 23:22

Let us know how you get on.
They do have to provide you with a place. There won't be time for an appeal before Sep 11 so the FAP is your best bet.

Original poster

Hellenhellen · 07/08/2024 23:12

hello Mums! UPDATE *

My younger DS is starting at St John's on September 4th, and it is confirmed. The school admission team was very friendly and helpful. I already feel like it is a good choice for my DS.

However, elder DS, who is starting Year 9, has had no luck so far. Richmond admissions wrote to me about presenting the daughter's case at the Richmond Secondary Fair Access Panel on Wednesday, 11th September 2024, should a place not be offered to them in advance of this.

We will have a phone call on Friday regarding this, and I will provide my daughter's school report in English.

Do you have any experience with this situation? Is there anything I should know or tell the officer on our call on Friday?

any advice is appreciated - thank you so much

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LondonCityMum77 · 04/07/2024 09:20

Thank you @Hellenhellen @Curdled yes I’m familiar with these maps/site. The issue is that they don’t account for ultra fine particulates which are more hazardous and still unregulated. Apparently planes are a big sources of these… I’m trying to find a website which monitors these or get insights from someone in the known… @Hellenhellen ill let you know if i have more info.

SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn · 03/07/2024 16:10

Yes, if it is in year admission you have to apply separately@Hellenhellen

TKA is a small school so there is less chance that somebody resigns. Teddington School is large and definitely there is more mobility there.

Curdled · 03/07/2024 15:52

@Hellenhellen I think you'll need to put in a separate in-year application to Kingston.

Unlike Year-7 transition, the applications aren't coordinated between boroughs. Ironically, both boroughs use the same admissions team at "Achieving for Children (AfC)", an arms-length company owned jointly by both boroughs. But nevertheless, you'll probably still need to do two applications.

The schools won't know what preference you've listed them as, and the AfC admissions team won't care. If possible, they will offer you your highest possible preference from both boroughs. However, Richmond is obliged to provide you with a place, so will offer an alternative if no preferences are available.

Original poster

Hellenhellen · 03/07/2024 15:26

Thank you @SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn . We are applying to Year 9, though. I hope to be within the top 3 on the waiting list for TS, but let's hope there are spaces.

Richmond and Kingston application forms are separate, so I had to choose 4 options in the Richmond application, and KTA wasn't on the list. So, If I apply to Kingston borough now, will KTA be our 1st choice on their list?

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Original poster

Hellenhellen · 03/07/2024 15:22

Oh, by the way, one personal experience: I suffer from allergic asthma, and when I visited Tunbridge Wells, I coughed for hours from pollens. I suffered less in the same week in the Richmond/Surbiton area. I visited my brother in the same week and drove from Surbiton to West Wickham. I remember saying my cough increased while moving toward him and lessened towards the riverside. I have no idea if there is any science behind it, but I felt better near the river and coughed/sneezed less.

TW scored 28 vs Teddington 44, so TW is supposed to be better air. My experience told vice versa. Long story short, personal experience really matters.

PS: My coughing is horrible. It takes some minutes, and I end up throwing up or in the A&E for Ventolin/Pulmicort.

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SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn · 03/07/2024 15:20

worrying it could shade our application to Richmond Borough for Teddington School.

It doesn't work like that @Hellenhellen

The system works on your list of preferences and availability for you of the space in the the school of your top preference. The system doesn't work on compromise assumptions. You will get Teddington School for sure if you live in Teddington Riverside. If you put GreyCourt second you will not get it because you will get your first preference. This year catchment for Teddington was including all Teddington, all Hamptons, Twickenham, a bit of Ham and Kingston. Smaller than last year but still covered it all. Half of my son's class is going there- all sporty kids

Original poster

Hellenhellen · 03/07/2024 15:09

https://www.iqair.com/air-quality-map?lat=51.456357&lng=0.040725&zoomLevel=10

I found the above, and Teddington's score is 38 -Green/good (over 50 is considered moderate). This is so much better than inner-city London and many other London Boroughs, which are mostly over 50 and have moderate pollution.

....But even Hounslow (Heathrow area) is 44 😃and still better than inner London - if these numbers are correct

Live Animated Air Quality Map (AQI, PM2.5...) | IQAir

Discover AirVisual Map, live world air pollution and air quality index (AQI) interactive 2D animated map combining PM2.5 data from public government, air quality stations, our community.

https://www.iqair.com/air-quality-map?lat=51.456357&lng=0.040725&zoomLevel=10

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Original poster

Hellenhellen · 03/07/2024 14:55

SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn · 01/07/2024 19:37

Please check as you may be also in Kingston Academy catchment if this is Teddington Riverside, @Hellenhellen

It is just across the river, with direct measurements very close, and the walking path we need to go through Kingston Bridge. I wasn't sure about applying to Kingston Borough, worrying it could shade our application to Richmond Borough for Teddington School. DD also would prefer Grey Court over TKA if we have to travel across the river. do you think we should still apply to TKA in this case?

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Original poster

Hellenhellen · 03/07/2024 14:47

@LondonCityMum77 , this is interesting. I only considered the noise levels, which I didn't hear much during my daily visits to Teddington/Ham. ( I stayed in a hotel in Surbiton—I heard nothing there.) However, during my visit to Kew/Richmond, I thought the noise was annoying. If you find anything on air pollution, I would also love to hear about it.

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