Becky High, Dr Challoners High, Aylesbury High, Wycombe High or Chesham Grammar

Ha, yes. DH is like this, he did something called General Science, and failed that. He did however do German, French and Latin (the latter two to AS level, in the days when that was more of a thing). I think it's a shame that MFLs don't seem to be regarded as important these days. DD's English and history teachers both wanted her to take their subjects for A level, and in hindsight she probably should have done one of them along with biology and chemistry, but as you say it has worked out in her case. I'm broadly of the opinion that we specialise too early in England and a lot of DCs would benefit from keeping their options open a while longer.

@TimeZonedOut really? your dd knows of no issues. No one with an eating disorder, self harming, at CAMHS? In any of her classes? Then she’s walking around with blinkers on I’m afraid. It’s sad but it’s rife at these high pressure schools and it’s no good pretending it’s not.
They’re good schools but they do have their issues. Maybe speak to parents of girls that have left…….

And she’s a scientist @thing47 ! So all worked out ok. I think, though, other talents are less well catered for at many schools. We had no idea DD would be good at MFLs. I’m so glad she got to do 2 and keep them to uni! It partially defines her as a person. I think when dc are restricted to one, it’s not acceptable if they have a talent. We don’t restrict sciences to one. Although in my day, lots of us did one science O level and I could not pass that.

No indeed @TizerorFizz . And I'm pretty sure DD's old school don't do this any more either. We did bring the issue up at the time, but were told this was how they did GCSEs. I think (though stand to be corrected) it was a hangover from the days when the majority of students couldn't really handle 8 academic GCSEs at the same time. To be fair, DD could have taken subjects such as drama, art, geography, business studies so the science-heavy bias was partly choice.

After DD being at AHS for six years I haven't heard of any mental health issues. And girls do talk so I think my DD would know among her friendship group!

Also I think Spanish, French and German are available for GCSE.

Some girls get very anxious about school and are perfectionists. No high performing school is immune. If DC are not happy, there are other alternatives. In Bucks, very few parents of bright DC don’t see the grammar as everything. The obvious ones are the people who go to private schools, eg Wycombe Abbey. My DD got 140(max 141) in the 11 plus back in the day but we chose boarding. Most people thought we were bonkers.

AHS has always had a lot of MFL provision. Back in the day it was a specialist MFL school. Luckily my DD was required to take a spread of subjects at GCSE and did 2 MFL and 2 humanities plus drama as her choices on top of 6 (maths, sciences, English). I think these days that’s possibly too many!

What issues did you have that mean you have to consider diversity in selecting the sex school? The home counties seems to have a fair/even dispersion.

2 years ago AGS definitely did statistics in year 10.
AHS offers two MFL at GCSE level, alongside 3 sciences, I seem to remember the payoff was no art subject! That was three years ago, my dd did 11 GCSEs. Chose not to stay for sixth form.
Grammars are not the be all and end all, they do not suit all children no matter how bright they are.

I can see why she chose PE. My DDs definitely not sporty. I think taking subjects in y10 isn’t great if they could have got a better grade by waiting a year and doing less. I think DD1 did IT early and it was a waste of time. I doubt if many secondaries do this now.

Yeah, I don't think they take that many now, they had a weird approach then of taking 6 GCSEs in Y10 and 6 more in Y11, but hadn't thought through the consequences of it.

They only offered French or Spanish as MFL, she could have done both but didn't want to, she's actually found stats very useful in epidemiology modules during her degrees. Could have done art or drama instead of PE but she's very sporty (represented school in 7 or 8 different sports) so reckoned she'd get a better grade in that.

It’s the same at AHS

Over recent years some rather unpleasant mental health stories have emerged from Becky High. Please make sure you do your homework, ask around and are comfortable with sending your DD there. It’s a bit of a dirty secret with parents knowing it’s not an ideal school for all girls but enjoying its kudos.

No arts subject? Few take 12 I think. Very rare. Also very maths and science biased. Most secondaries don’t offer all of these I think. My DD1 wanted MFLs and most secondaries struggle with this too. I know AHS used to limit GCSEs to 9.

In fairness, DD did maths, triple science, english x 2, history, Spanish, further maths, stats, ICT and PE at her secondary modern, so a pretty decent spread of standard academic GCSEs. Very similar profile to DS's grammar school.

No ides if all secondary moderns offer such a wide range, however…

Most grammars get little PP funding. Some have raised over £100,000 from parents for decades. RGS used to boast about it. Their funding otherwise isn’t more generous but seemless teaching can happen due to more specialist teachers. It’s always been the same.

Also the GCSE results need some scrutiny. What GCSEs? Do they ignore MFL? Make choices from easier subjects? Take fewer GCSEs? All sorts of ways to look at this.

When we were looking at the Bucks girls grammars, Beaconsfield High had annual parental contributions in the region of £500 per annum through regular monthly donations through the PTA. Many give more with a recommended minimum of £30 per month.

https://www.beaconsfieldhigh.bucks.sch.uk/docs/REGULAR_GIVING/FINAL_ALL_YRS_RG_Form_2021.pdf

It’s not compulsory but most do. It generates a huge amount of income for them each year.

With the average house price in the town at £1.3m and the savings from going state instead of private, this is a mere drop in the pond for many.

@thing47 thanks. Yes that does make more sense. I know from talking to my sister who has a child in a grammar that the ‘voluntary parent contribution’ was several hundred pounds while for the comp local to me it’s only £50

Oh sorry @Anon2190 , I wasn't clear. They don't get more allocated funding. In fact, they often get less for exactly the reasons you outline.

What I meant was what you say in your last sentence – that GS parents (particularly in south Bucks) are typically pretty wealthy and happy to support fund-raising efforts. Apologies.

That’s interesting you say that the grammars have better funding. I always thought it was lower as they would have fewer pp children and other deprivation flags. Or do you mean that the parents at grammar support more financially.

I kind of think you're both right! I had a DS at grammar and a DD(2) at secondary modern at the same time. The schools were similar sizes and equidistant from our house.

I don't think there's much doubt that grammars in Bucks benefit from greater resources and funding. For example, if DS's subject teacher was not available for a lesson, it would be covered by another specialist in that subject and work would be seamless; in DD's case it would be covered by whoever was free and they would be given worksheets (at best). Similarly both schools were fund-raising for a new sports hall – it took the GS about 6 months and the secondary modern several years to raise the same amount. I don't think there's any disputing @TizerorFizz 's point that the secondary moderns have a more fluctuating profile than the grammars – DD's school was a basket case until about 2-3 years before she went there.

Equally, though, I agree that it is possible to achieve academically in many of these secondary moderns. Of DD's friendship group of 8, all of them went to university and 3 of them (including DD) have Masters. And impressive ones at that, which involved changing to top universities rather than merely staying on a year where they were. There's a fair bit of data indicating that 11+ results don't directly correlate with success in GCSEs, let alone beyond that, so we need to be a little more circumspect about the quality of certain schools and their teaching – I know of several pupils at a girls GS who went to DD's maths teacher for private tutoring.

Hampshire doesn’t have grammars! It’s not the same. Bucks does so it’s a different playing field. Hants 6th form colleges are 3500 pupils. That is not available in Bucks. We have the system we have and it’s difficult for secondaries to be Outstanding. Few have ever been. Ever. Just Waddesdon from memory. Many secondaries have had RI inspections. Even the ones that are sought after now. They fluctuate and some have been basket cases. Most are not but some teeter. The grammars never have. Even with a few inspections due, AHS proves you can still get outstanding if you are.

But Hampshire manages just fine without 6th forms - Peter Symonds (6th form college) hosts the county specialist music provision any many go into conservatoires etc so it’s just fine. I don’t know if looking up to sports teams is a thing is it?

Anyway I’m just giving you my experience of working in Bucks secondary schools and sending my children there- no one has to send their child to a Bucks state school after all.

I just think that perpetuating the grammar good / upper bad rhetoric is both incorrect and also damaging. A grammar is not the be all and end all!

I don’t agree. Having no 6th form leaves a school bereft of music talent. Of older role models. Of sports teams to look up to. It is not the same experience at all. Plus the concerns of applying for 6th forms elsewhere and not all will make it to the grammars. It just would no do for me and my local sec has a bouyant 6th form.

My point about MFL is that the school gets too many pupils to swerve it. According to Ofsted.

I agree with @MarchingFrogs that having (or not having) a 6th form is of no relevance to students in years 7-11. Also many students (even those in grammar schools) go elsewhere for KS5.

I actually went to school in Winchester (Hampshire) and non of the cities schools had a 6th form and pretty much everyone went to Peter Symonds which is highly sought after and always seems to be in the Tatler lists.

Gillotts in Henley - another high performing school doesn’t have a 6th form.

The absence of a 6th form doesn’t prevent students from these schools going on to highly sought after universities.

By MFL I’m assuming you are referring to French, German and Spanish? (as obviously there are very many other modern foreign languages). Cressex only offers French so I’m guessing this is your point. WHS offers French and Spanish. SWBGS offers French Spanish and German - although students will study either Spanish or German during year 8. Yes the grammars make students take a language to GCSE. Cressex don’t (neither do Gillotts). We could go off onto a massive tangent as to teaching of French German and Spanish in schools I guess. It would be interesting to compare figures as to the numbers of students who are bilingual in schools - I would hazard a guess that Cressex would have reasonably high % who are fluent therefore in 2 modern foreign languages.

So aside from having the opportunity to learn Spanish and German (although not all Bucks grammars offer German) what is it that students at Cressex are missing out on?

Edited to add you say Cressex has a very different type of pupil body. Yes the difference is that they don’t select at 11 and can be considered to have the pupils not selected by the grammar schools. The fact that Cressex pupils are represented in the cohorts of RG and other universities surely shows that selecting at 11 is not a great means of identifying future potential?)

But aside from the possibility that those teachers who value teaching sixth formers over KS3 / GCSE students may give the upper schools with no sixth form a swerve, it really makes no difference to the students in years 7-11 that there are no sixth formers being taught on yhe premises, in terms of the curriculum provided. Year 10s aren't going to be taught AS level Geography, or year 8 A level Graphic Design, for example, either at an upper school of a grammar.

Almost no schools in Hampshire have a sixth form - the vast majority of students do post-16 at one of the colleges. Students in the county's 11-16 schools don't do poorly on the strength of this.