Maths GCSE resit - how does it work?

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 2024-03-06T12:36:07+00:00

Hope someone wise can shed some light as school are avoiding the question ... DD hoping to stay on for 6th form and fingers crossed she will be ok for required grades EXCEPT there's a chance she won't get the 5 needed in maths. A levels she's look at are English Lit, History, Media and sociology. How do resits work? Some sources I've found googling suggest she has to gain the required maths pass in November before even starting A's? Do they have actual maths lessons or are they expected to study by themselves? Are they just limped on with Y11 until exam? Also - worse case scenario I know but what happens if they fail resit? Does it mean game over for A's? As I say school are avoiding the question but I don't want to leave it until end of August. Realise this all predicates on schools discretion to allow her on course without maths 6 which they judge on the old case by case basis. [confused] Thanks all

Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 07/03/2024 11:52

Thanks and yes we do have a couple of solid options for her to drop down to if needed I just need to subtly keep these on her peripheral as she has such tunnel vision with sixth form.

Also I need to balance the message of "let's be realistic " vs "you aren't cut out for a levels ".

Ironically this came about because at the time and still now she hadn't a clue what she wants to do after education, didn't have an obvious interest that a vocational or practical path could follow so decided if in doubt, keep studying subjects you enjoy and are good at.

Again thanks all for your input. Plan is carry on as we are now, ramp things up over coming weeks (while not neglecting other subjects - this is tough to manage as chucking everything at maths doesn't leave much time or energy left and we can't let things that are doing ok, drop) and keep her mind open to other options.

Roll on the end of June

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clary · 06/03/2024 21:52

Getting a 5 on a foundation paper is actually quite difficult - the grade boundary is around 75%. A grade 2 is around 30%. By comparison you can get a 5 on a higher paper with around 33% and a 6 with 47% meanings more than half the paper is grade 7-9 material which can be demoralising/throw kids off.

IGWYM in terms of the percentage - but honestly, a 5 for F is a lot easier to achieve than a 5 in H. I am not a maths expert haha but in MFL which is my subject, not only is it easier to gain a 5 in terms of basic skills, but also the F paper is much more accessible (as you note above) so there is no feeling of "I can't do thissss!"

Just a quick example - for speaking in German, the same skill (described in exactly the same way) will score you 10 out of 10 in F paper and 4 out of 10 in H paper. Presumably the same factors are at play in maths for the similar skills.

@tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz I hate to join the slight doomsayers but I might be tempted to look at other options apart from A levels. A level Eng lit with a grade 5, while possible, is not ideal, and is likely to lead to a lower A level grade. Not that CCD (or whatever) is a disaster, but it may seem like it if others are gaining higher grades. I am not saying that is what your DD will gain but just to be aware.

My DD is an exam panicker, got 9-A-A (funny year!) in GCSEs for her A level choices and ended up with BCC. DS (not an exam panicker) got 9-8-8 and that turned into AAB, so still not the toppest grades, even with those GCSEs. I know that a lot depends on teachers, work ethic, interest - just saying bear it in mind.

usernamedifferent · 06/03/2024 21:14

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 21:04

User** just re read my reply and apologise if it sounded defensive. I didn't intend that but I know this whole situation makes me a leeeeeetle prickly at times.

I appreciate your comments. I wish this subject didn't make me feel quite as emotional as it does. X

You didn’t sound defensive at all, don’t worry. I get it’s a highly emotive time!

I completely agree that a low grade in maths shouldn’t stop your DD doing A-levels in other subjects. The red flag for me was you saying she got grade 5/6 in her English mock. Really to be successful in a subject at A-level you should be getting at least a 6, preferable a 7 or 8 at GCSE.

It sounds like you’re being sensible and considering all options so that good. And she’s lucky to have you and your DH supporting her so well at home.

confusedbythesystem · 06/03/2024 21:13

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:40

Forgot to say she has had a tutor for 18 months now, once a week.

Show quote history

Is your tutor the best one for your daughter? My DC (dyslexic) went from 2's on test papers before Christmas to a grade 4 pass at GCSE maths. This was just 12 lessons from a tutor over the 8 weeks running up to the exam.. It was an expensive option at £50ph but tutor was a retired head of department and knew just how to target the skills needed, help memory and boost onfidence, so it was well worth it. After I8 months I'd expect to see better outcomes from tutoring than your daughter's level.

If your DD's other grades are 5/6 rather than 7+, I'd also recommend looking at sixth form colleges offering BTEC. I

Octavia64 · 06/03/2024 21:08

There are plenty of kids who struggle with English or maths but are strong enough to do A levels.

My DS nearly failed his English, and his teacher was amazed when asking his class what they were going to do for sixth form and he said a levels, he did maths, further maths bio and chem.

We had to tutor him to within an inch of his life.

Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 21:04

User** just re read my reply and apologise if it sounded defensive. I didn't intend that but I know this whole situation makes me a leeeeeetle prickly at times.

I appreciate your comments. I wish this subject didn't make me feel quite as emotional as it does. X

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Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 21:02

usernamedifferent · 06/03/2024 20:53

If she’s been having a tutor for 18 months, and doing 30mins a day with your DH, and still at the 2-3 grade, then my honest opinion is she is going to struggle to get up to a 5 now in the next couple of months. Whether it’s dyscalculia or something else, who knows. Sounds like the school haven’t been great, or honest with you.

You admit she’s not very academic but works very, very hard. Is she sure A-levels are right for her? English mocks at grade 5/6 would suggest she will struggle with English Lit A-level.

A-levels are such a jump from GCSE and I wonder whether gently suggesting alternative courses might be worthwhile?

We've upped the focus since getting the 2 in November so her progress with past papers is encouraging.

I get what your saying and agree it's a jump up to A Levels but she loves the subjects she's looking at and her teachers have said she would be capable. She would still find it challenging but o don't believe it's beyond her at all to do well at those subjects.

Plan B is Lowe entry requirements and also a plan c at the same venue for a course below a levels so that's there if it's a complete disaster. I do keep casually mentioning these to her so they don't disappear off her radar.

But I really feel that just because maths may go horribly wrong it doesn't mean she doesn't have what it takes to do other subjects at a higher level.

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Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:56

Arriettyborrower · 06/03/2024 20:49

I don’t have any further suggestions, you are doing everything I’d suggest but I wanted to show some solidarity. DS sat his GCSE’s last year, maths was always his nemesis, bottom set and 1’s in the November and February mocks. I arranged tutoring from Feb til May once a week for maths but also once a week for English, chemistry, physics and biology. This definitely helped overall.

He achieved a 4, and was further towards the grade boundary for a 5 than a 3.

He got a 2 and 3 in English lang mocks, despite achieving a 6 in English Lit in yr10, but went on to get a 6 in the actual exam.

He is now doing well with 3 A levels in his sixth form who had been saying they would need to ‘see’ how he did.

Wishing you all the luck, this time last year was hard!!!!

Ahhhh that's amazing! You must have all been over the moon. Well done to your son for achieving that, I'm so glad A levels are going well for him x

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Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:54

Cheers black bean yea she is definitely better with words!!

Great suggestions thanks and they have started Corbett and that maths tutus looks good on YouTube too.

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Arriettyborrower · 06/03/2024 20:53

Just remembered, I increased subject tutoring to twice a week in line with the exam schedule, I think he had 3 sessions of maths one week in half term before one paper. This definitely helped.

usernamedifferent · 06/03/2024 20:53

If she’s been having a tutor for 18 months, and doing 30mins a day with your DH, and still at the 2-3 grade, then my honest opinion is she is going to struggle to get up to a 5 now in the next couple of months. Whether it’s dyscalculia or something else, who knows. Sounds like the school haven’t been great, or honest with you.

You admit she’s not very academic but works very, very hard. Is she sure A-levels are right for her? English mocks at grade 5/6 would suggest she will struggle with English Lit A-level.

A-levels are such a jump from GCSE and I wonder whether gently suggesting alternative courses might be worthwhile?

Arriettyborrower · 06/03/2024 20:49

I don’t have any further suggestions, you are doing everything I’d suggest but I wanted to show some solidarity. DS sat his GCSE’s last year, maths was always his nemesis, bottom set and 1’s in the November and February mocks. I arranged tutoring from Feb til May once a week for maths but also once a week for English, chemistry, physics and biology. This definitely helped overall.

He achieved a 4, and was further towards the grade boundary for a 5 than a 3.

He got a 2 and 3 in English lang mocks, despite achieving a 6 in English Lit in yr10, but went on to get a 6 in the actual exam.

He is now doing well with 3 A levels in his sixth form who had been saying they would need to ‘see’ how he did.

Wishing you all the luck, this time last year was hard!!!!

BlackBean2023 · 06/03/2024 20:49

OP, there's still time but it will take real effort- my DD got a low 4 in her mocks but ideally needs a 6 to stay at her school sixth form.

We have:

Engaged a maths tutor once a week - will move to twice a week after Easter until beg. of June (paper 3 is about a month after paper 1 - all the points count).

We're using mathsgenie and cornet maths 5 a day. The Corbett maths revision cards are amazing.

The maths tutor on YouTube - talks through papers, questions and mark schemes.

Practice. Your DD sounds like mine- good with words. This isn't helpful in maths, you need to practice the logical steps to get to the answer (and get points for working out). The only way to learn this if you're not naturally numerate is to practice and create muscle memory that isn't there right now.

Getting a 5 on a foundation paper is actually quite difficult - the grade boundary is around 75%. A grade 2 is around 30%. By comparison you can get a 5 on a higher paper with around 33% and a 6 with 47% meanings more than half the paper is grade 7-9 material which can be demoralising/throw kids off.

Good luck OP, I know how stressful this is for parents let alone the kids!

Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:47

Oooh Octavia thanks, those are really helpful.

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Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:46

Doh

I'm sorry I didn't mean to use quote in all those replies

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Octavia64 · 06/03/2024 20:45

Also

shows how to use a Casio to solve equations.

Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:43

Everyone has been so helpful thanks. Slightly depressing reading it's fair to say but hey ho

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Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:42

mrsdolittle · 06/03/2024 18:42

Once a student achieves a 4 at GCSE English or maths the sixth form will not be funded for a resit. At my sixth form students who arrive with a 4 and want a higher grade would normally be able to pay to resit with us no issue. If they needed a 5 or above to study certain subjects there would have to be a conversation around results/enrolment time as to whether they would be allowed to study that subject. Sometimes there would be the proviso that they have to resit - but this will vary case by case. But certainly some sixth forms would be less accommodating and if the criteria isn't met then unfortunately the student will need to look elsewhere. From the subjects you mention the only one that may require a higher maths grade would be sociology I suspect.

Oversubscribed sixth forms are in a position to be picky unfortunately

Thank you

I'm very glad we have a plan b option which asks for 4 and states if not achieved they would get her to resit.

Plan B isn't her preference but it's still a good one.

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Octavia64 · 06/03/2024 20:40

It's also worth learning how to use her calculator.

If she is using a Casio there are a lot of tips and tricks that will help her pick up marks as the calculator will solve it for her.

See

www.pgonline.co.uk/landing/top-5-calculator-hacks/

insights.gostudent.org/en/gcse-calculators

Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:40

Octavia64 · 06/03/2024 18:41

If she is currently getting a 2 then this is concerning.

It would be sensible to have a number of options lined up for her that you are sure will take a resit student as it is very rare for a student to go from a 2 to a 4.

Given how her school is reacting I'd suggest it is likely that they don't want to run a resit class next year with the new funding conditions. So if you really want her to go there she'll need a very good tutor.

Forgot to say she has had a tutor for 18 months now, once a week.

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Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:39

Octavia64 · 06/03/2024 18:38

So each school runs resits slightly differently but there are some things that are common.

If she does not get a 4 she has to keep taking it until either she does get a 4 or she stops studying or she ages out. I think it is 19 but I could be wrong.

Some sixth forms don't like running resit classes (they take up a whole teacher for very few students) so some sixth forms will not admit you if you have failed either maths or English. This is getting more and more common.

She can do resits alongside a levels but only at the colleges that will accept her.

From 2024 colleges and sixth forms have to provide 4 hours of in person lessons for maths resit students per week. This is expected to lead to more sixth forms refusing to admit resit students. (It'll be hideously expensive).

www.gov.uk/guidance/16-to-19-funding-maths-and-english-condition-of-funding#:~:text=To%20meet%20the%20condition%20of,rata%20for%20part%2Dtime%20students.

Thanks Octavia. This is helpful to know. And realistic too

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Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:38

StringUnravelled · 06/03/2024 18:37

"The go through the paper with her and see what she would have scored and where she dropped marks. It seems unlikely to be a processing issue or poor timekeeping if she is doing OK in other subjects. Eng lang for example is very fast paced and demanding in those terms.

So where can she pick up marks? Are there gaps in terms of specific maths topics? Or is it about how she is tackling the questions in general? Does she need to practise the basics? Is she floored by the word questions and struggling to see what the sum is?"

This, also look back at any previous paper she has sat including any year 10 ones and look at where she "lost" marks, actually you start every paper at zero and gain marks so where could she gain more marks? Hopefully they will have gone over the paper in class so she will have the correct full mark answer usually written in a different pen colour. Give her that same question again, can she now get full marks? Is she learning from it? Identifying what she is missing knowledge on is a great strategy. Best to nail that 5 than have to worry about resits.

Cheers String. Yes we're definitely as a team focused on upping that grade.

I'm just a bit of a secret catastrophe planner and like to get myself mentally prepared!

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Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:36

noblegiraffe · 06/03/2024 16:09

The govt requirement is that she needs a 4 not to have to resit. That the school says a 5 is down to their choice and it seems like it would be odd to restrict entry to those A-levels based on her maths result.

Generally a pupil resitting maths would do this alongside their A-levels, not before. Resits are in November but results aren’t till January. There are normally resit classes for sixth form, not with Y11. If she doesn’t get the grade she can resit again in June.

The school can, however, deny admission to sixth form completely if they have specified a 5 as the entry requirement.

Thanks noble. That was my worry that they could deny admission. Her second choice is a college where they only need 4 for maths and I'm trying to tactfully keep this option in her head so if disaster (to her, short term at least) occurs she can go into that positively. Just makes me sad that school have not put any interventions in place until the second mock with a 2 despite me being like a dog with a bone that she has been struggling. And that will mean they will potentially not admit her even if all other grades are good.

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Original poster

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 06/03/2024 20:33

Thanks all, some very positive and constructive things here.

@clary thanks this is a very helpful post. In terms of maths yes - we are in the process (and have been since before Christmas) throwing everything at it, so many past papers! She sits down with DH every night religiously for about 30 mins (they call it maths club) and chip away but by bit. She's definitely getting better at working out what maths she needs and the last two papers at home, using last years grade boundaries as guidance she's well into 3s and close to 4s.

Other subjects including English she's doing ok (5/6 last mocks) and her options are ok too. So while she isn't academic she works very, very hard it's just maths has always been an uphill struggle.

I'm ashamed to say I'd not really heard of dyscalculia until recently. I'm a bit scared that it rings some bells but I've let myself be robbed off for years by school saying she's doing ok, don't worry she'll be fine. But it's too late in the day I think to follow this up so we are where we are.

But yes - good call on getting her last paper and seeing where she dropped marks and could she handle those questions now. We'll do that. Thanks 🙏

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mrsdolittle · 06/03/2024 18:42

Once a student achieves a 4 at GCSE English or maths the sixth form will not be funded for a resit. At my sixth form students who arrive with a 4 and want a higher grade would normally be able to pay to resit with us no issue. If they needed a 5 or above to study certain subjects there would have to be a conversation around results/enrolment time as to whether they would be allowed to study that subject. Sometimes there would be the proviso that they have to resit - but this will vary case by case. But certainly some sixth forms would be less accommodating and if the criteria isn't met then unfortunately the student will need to look elsewhere. From the subjects you mention the only one that may require a higher maths grade would be sociology I suspect.

Oversubscribed sixth forms are in a position to be picky unfortunately