Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

To move school mid Y7 when she is doing great?

110 replies

SimonBolivar · 04/03/2024 18:26

Hello
my daughter has settled really well in a local comp. She was selected for the scholars program and may or may not be gifted but is super bright and interested, studious. I a not super keen on assessments and so I’m just happy she’s getting on very well socially and academically. She loves languages and unprompted her favourite new subject is German.

the challenge: there is a very unique school in our area (Europa if anyone knows) - it teaches primary bilingual so half the week is English and half the week is either french, German or Spanish.
for secondary they continue with the bilingual focus. Teaching history georgrsphy and literature in french. They do not do A levels (or even gcse) but prepare for the IB. they have good results. It’s a free government funded school. Yes - unique.

i am french and my husband English. My kids have had a standard U.K. education so far except for the few short years abroad where my daughter did the equivalent of Y1 at a french international school. She is fully bilingual

we have received an offer out of the blue for her to join after Easter

i don’t use mumsnet a lot but it’s here I have come across the expression “don’t move a happy child”

the advantages for her and my family are as follows:
if she takes the place her sister and brother woul be given priority automatically. This means my youngest could start reception next year in bilingual environment, and my middle child could join either in Y5 or Y7 depending what we decide.

it would be an amazing boost to their french. They speak it but without peers/ teaching etc, it’s made it really hard on me to be the sole provider of french and I revert to English often, as they know I understand everything: what’s the point of speaking to me in french, when it’s harder for them to do so: not a virtuous cycle!

she would work towards the IB in a demanding environment which I believe would suit her

BUT no school is perfect and like all others they have their own issues. The long term sustainability of the European project behind it… will it survive? A question for sure.

and more transport and therefore longer hours (not necessarily an issue, for my husband and I that means longer working days.. but not ideal for the reception child)

as you can imagine, very conflicted. There is no amount of tuition I believe would give them the experience of developing daily sustained friendships in the language….

i am aware of her being a strategic placement for the rest of my family to then join the school…

what would you think and ask yourself?

not looking for do this or that but rather : consider this or ask that.

thank you

OP posts:
Foxesandsquirrels · 13/03/2024 18:51

@Vive42 u do know the state school she's joining would have to receive documents from her previous state school? Confidential files etc... you can't just pretend you're sick for two weeks. I don't think you realise how admissions work. Being part of a scholars programme in your local comp is not the same as being a scholar in a private school. It's not a factor in admissions at all. I think you've misread the OP.

SimonBolivar · 13/03/2024 18:27

I know I don’t know how it will work out. Trust me I know.

In the end my / our decision was this:
it’s FEAR making me scared of moving her. Of course it’s FEAR

and COURAGE that made us move her. It’s one of my key values. It’s bloody hard to look fear in the face and KNOW this may be, in hindsight the stupidest bet we’ve ever made. Because it’s a bet. A calculated gamble. Where you have no certainty on either side.

And if it backfires badly we will all pay dearly. And we will get through « it » together even if that means more moves and apologising we royally screwed up and trying to undo I’ve already played it out. And yet I still chose the scary road

but what if she is angry at us in 10 years because we let her stay at the local comp because she wanted to stay with friends who are no longer her friends and she sees with envy the others who took different roads (my husband’s own regrets regarding his education and his parents who were very conflict avoidant with all their kids)

but if our intuition is right yes there will be a short term impact, painful, deeply, I know how stubborn she is. and I also believe she will fall into friendship groups and everything will eventually be OK and better for her long term.

if only you could predict these things

ps not possible to start any earlier as the other kid is leaving at Easter

OP posts:
PuttingDownRoots · 13/03/2024 18:20

@Vive42 these are State schools, you can only be registered at one. And as soon as a space is available, they have to offer it to the next person on the list.

The best the OP could promise is going back on the waiting list.

Vive42 · 13/03/2024 18:12

@Foxesandsquirrels I disagree. I think it can be pretty apparent from early on if you'll like somewhere or not. If it's kind of OK in the first week, you just know it'll be OK probably.

The DC is a scholar so they obviously wanted her and would rather keep her, I'd imagine they'd be OK with her going off somewhere else. Why not even call in sick for 2 weeks!

Maybe OP has to pay extra set of school fees anyway if notice not given in time. As a parent I would almost feel entitled to a trial given that i'm paying so much that I may not be using up!

Some places you just know from day one there's an atmosphere, the teachers, the children, the setting - you feel it. But then I'm very attuned to places so perhaps it's different for me.

It's something that wasn't discussed by OP as to the character of her child- does she make friends easily, has she settled elsewhere OK?

It sounds like she does fine, so I'm sure it will be fine. I'd just be kind rather than so black and white. But hey, it's all just opinion on here, using our own frames of reference as a guide. I hope your DC settles well OP.

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/03/2024 18:01

@Vive42 that conversation is very different age 16 though and when it comes to sixth form. Ops dds space will get snapped up quickly. A 2 week trial age 11 with a promise to go back if it doesn't work out will be awful. It'll take about a term to see if it's really not going to work. No one will hold a spot that long.

Validus · 13/03/2024 17:59

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/03/2024 15:13

6 weeks to accept is very very unusual.

Europa is a bit weird in all things admissions though. I guess someone is leaving the French stream and they want the place filled.

Vive42 · 13/03/2024 17:57

I would also have talked to her existing school and explained the situation and asked if they were comfortable to allow a trial.

Also OP the UK is much more flexible in terms of study-into-work opportunities than France - in fact most of the EU.

You can study History at degree level and as long as you have a B in maths A-level you can get hired by any of big five accountancy firms and train to be an accountant.

Similarly you can convert from chemistry degree to study Law via the legal practice course.

Graduate employers are very open to many different subjects in various companies. Of course medicine, dentistry, engineering etc - they all require specific degrees - but all the rest of the jobs - not so much.

Whilst I agree that the Bacc is great for all rounders there are I would guess, a majority of people that are skewed towards arts or STEM and allowing them to focus earlier at A-Levels on subjects they love is a win win. They are more focused and motivated and do better.

So the UK system I would argue is more flexible all round, despite narrowing earlier on. Just something to think about...

Vive42 · 13/03/2024 17:48

@Foxesandsquirrels I'm in this exact situation with my DD for sixth form.

She wants to leave but she's scared. I have said she can return to the school she's currently at and if it doesn't work out at sixth form where she's planning to go, she can go back.

Other people have returned to the school after it not working out for them, it's not uncommon in fact. The school welcome them back.

It means she can try the new school without fear.

I also was given this option at 16 where I held two places. I was allowed to trial one week at the new school and my existing school were very magnanimous and agreed to allow me to go.

I met a lovely bunch of girls and stayed at the new school. But it made it so much less stressful to know the option to return was on the table.

I don't think "she'll never settle" is the case at all. Many move and are happy but a small fraction want to return and I don't see why there is a problem with it?

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/03/2024 17:44

@Vive42 I genuinely wouldn't do that, ever. She won't settle if she thinks there's a chance to come back. Plus that's also a lie, her space will likely be gone. I agree with the rest of it. With my DD the safety net was that if it's absolutely awful we will move her, but it won't be back to the same school she's just left.

Vive42 · 13/03/2024 17:41

I'd make a genuine offer to allow her to return to her other school if it doesn't work out. She's going from being special and a scholar and presumably a fair bit of work to get that? To now being like everyone else.

It's hard to be 11. You're not in control of that much and now she lost control further of so much that has been familiar for a long time.

I'd acknowledge there are going to be ups and downs. That it's not going to be plain sailing all the way through.

I'd imagine it will be OK but sometimes we need to know a safety net is below us so we can make the jump. If there's no safety net, it's terrifying. You sound good at jumping but not everyone is. In fact many people aren't.

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/03/2024 17:14

@SimonBolivar I do think you seem very reasonable and you writing that context does make more sense. Just so you know, I'm not anti moving schools. I essentially forced my DD to move at the end of Y10 last year, retake 10 and a term in had to accept it was the worst thing. I've just moved her AGAIN and she's finally happy again. This is a kid who, 10 months ago, had the most normal education and only moved schools once, at the normal time. Since July last year she's been to 3 different secondary schools!
My point is, you really never know what will work out. DD was fine to move last year, until we got the go ahead and it was real. We had the biggest pushback ever and all summer long I was enemy number 1. You can imagine what happened when it turned out the school was rubbish and she only lasted a term there!

Somanyquestionstoaskaboutthis · 13/03/2024 17:06

I can see your point of view, she’s only 11 and she’s not giving you any reasons other than friendships. But at 11 friendship is the most important thing to her, and however much you say she won’t lose those friends their relationship will change, and you do need to acknowledge that with her.

My parents decided we should all go to boarding school for sixth form, as our school was dire. The eldest loved it so they pushed second child, who purposely failed her GCSEs so she couldn’t go. Despite that they then pushed me even more, so I also failed a lot of mine on purpose so I could only go to the local college.

Nobody can see into the future, she may settle quickly and thrive at the new school, I really hope she does. But if she doesn’t, please take her seriously and listen to her. If she hates it please move her back. Keep a close eye on how she is coping, not academically but her mental health and her wellbeing. If she’s prone to internalising feelings this is even more important to be vigilant about as it may not be obvious.

SimonBolivar · 13/03/2024 16:33

Thank you all for all your inputs - i can see I could spend a lot of time here justifying our decision.
I truly appreciated all your inputs those I agreed with and those who made me consider new angles
I want to assure you I a listening to her and I know her enough to feel confident to make this decision for her. And yes it’s an unpopular decision, at home and here.

thank you still

OP posts:
SimonBolivar · 13/03/2024 16:30

@Mumoftwo1312
thank you

it’s hard to convey our unique situation
she doesn’t struggle in a bilingual environment. She spends all summer in french and speaks French fluently. Yes she’s french too. We have holidays with other french English families and she thrives there, constantly switching between the different language/ kids. when it’s my family and 100% in french with her cousins she’s happy too.
There was a French exchange student and she loved spending time with her.

She attended the equivalent of Reception year 1 in french school in Hong Kong which if I remember correctly was mostly of not all in french. She did really well there (and everywhere). In many ways she thinks she already knows French (spoken yes, not written!)

it’s my other 2 siblings who respond in English and that means as siblings they speak English between each other gradually we have become an English speaking HH.

Of the 3 she is most able in french not because she’s older but because I spoke exclusively in french to her at first… and then several dynamics made this harder and harder for the other siblings

i have not tried to convince her of anything - we just shared what we saw as positives for her as well as pros and cons that she then rated (on excel) - but basically she gave all top marks to her current school and all down marks to the new school so you can see in her brain it’s all black and white at the moment - no nuance.

so she has not given us « anything » except « I don’t want to go » at the last minute

At that point we pushed her to give us specifics, any specifics, and she just stays at I don’t want to go. I am very very happy to listen but we had a time boundaried decision to take, we even asked for an extension in light of new info when she buckled and were denied it and we needed specifics from Her if we were to take into account.

(Blanket no whithout understand why made us feel like it’s emotional rather than considered rejection)

my bet is that it’s purely friendships that’s the issue, not academics, not languages, it’s all seen through the emotional lense of friends and security (which she keeps as we don’t move)

but so far conversations still don’t really go into specifics of what she’s scared or worried about. It started a bit more as I try and console her she has splurged a few words and then she moves on. But she hasn’t « opened up » yet. It’s still fresh
My guess is it’s too overwhelming at the moment.

actively enquiring about moving her sooner- if she wishes to.

OP posts:
Foxesandsquirrels · 13/03/2024 15:58

I just looked at the website. She won't do any GCSEs? I was going to suggest maybe telling her she can always move for sixth form but you're really in for the long haul at this school. How on earth do you know at 11 that she will be suitable for IB?

Macracarpa · 13/03/2024 15:53

I honestly don’t really see why it would be worth all this. You have already done all the hard work of teaching her French at home. If being excellent in written french becomes important at any point she will have the basis to achieve that. If I were you I would leave her where she is and put my energy into strict OPOL at home and spending as much time in France as possible during the holidays.

Mumoftwo1312 · 13/03/2024 15:40

Why would she make the effort, painstakingly and excruciatingly, to explain all her reasons for not wanting to go, if she knows you won't change your mind? That's a lot of emotional effort, to stay calm and analytically explain. She knows instinctively that even if you "listen", ie quietly hear what she's saying, you won't "listen" as in allow your opinion to be changed.

Several posters on here have attempted to dissuade you of this plan, and we have the advantage of not being emotionally involved, and being grown ups. And we've failed. So what hope does she have? So she doesn't even try, there's no use

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/03/2024 15:34

"i really want to listen, she just hasn’t given us anything except - I’ll miss my friends and I don’t want to go."

@SimonBolivar in the kindest way possible, she's 11. What are you expecting her to say? That is what's important for her. She is telling you but you're not listening. She's even snowing you with her behaviour. It does feel a little bit like you're only willing to accept one answer from her.
On one hand you're expecting her to have a very mature and understanding response, and at the same time you're looking for something as patronising as a book about changes...
Don't expect her to be jumping with joy and do accept that as a parent there are decisions you'll make where you'll need to be a punching bag for a little bit. Obv there's limits but her response is very normal.
Don't just go on about how amazing it'll be. She needs to hear from you that you also share some of her concerns and that it'll be ok. You acknowledge she's only 11 and the decision is yours, but you are expecting her reaction to be the same as someone much older. You need to lay out what you're going to do to support her, even if it means telling her that look, it's ok if you're angry at me for a bit, I understand.

Mumoftwo1312 · 13/03/2024 15:22

She must feel frustrated because you are convinced this is in her best interests. So, trying to explain to you why she doesn't want to go, is an uphill battle.

A few key points: you said she replies in English when you speak to her in French. I was the same as a child (brought up in a trilingual household, never picked up the other two languages and almost developed selective mutism from the stress of it). If she doesn't enjoy a bilingual home, she'll probably find a bilingual academic environment worse.

Secondly you say blithely that she's bad at expressing emotion - but she's trying to now. I think based on your update, it's you who is unreceptive.

I wouldn't underestimate how hard it is to make a whole new set of friends, get to know a whole new set of teachers, especially for certain personality types. A defensive mum upthread got angry at me for saying so, but it's been shown to set kids back academically.

Trust your daughter's instincts. The touted benefits of this school don't seem to outweigh the upset you are putting her through

Hoppinggreen · 13/03/2024 15:17

Do your DC have dual nationality?
Less point in speaking fluent French if its difficult for them to live and work there in the future, although additional languages are always great to have.

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/03/2024 15:14

@SimonBolivar I would strongly push for a start before Easter.

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/03/2024 15:13

SimonBolivar · 13/03/2024 14:15

Oh I thought it was the standard process -at least here in Oxfordshire it is

6 weeks to accept is very very unusual.

SpringOfContentment · 13/03/2024 15:02

I'd move her before Easter if you possibly can.
Mine started a few weeks before the end of the school year. It was the best thing we did (after DS2 accepted he'd finished Y3, but yes, he was back in Y3, and no, he wouldn't be in Y3 after the summer holidays).
I'd get her started as soon as you can get uniform sorted.

SimonBolivar · 13/03/2024 14:15

Foxesandsquirrels · 12/03/2024 15:19

Wow that's unusual for a state school. Hopefully she comes round.

Oh I thought it was the standard process -at least here in Oxfordshire it is

OP posts:
SimonBolivar · 13/03/2024 14:14

@Foxesandsquirrels I haven’t asked about moving before Easter - interesting idea. I’m guessing the kid who’s moving abroad is using the Easter holiday for their move… yes the whole period of time is adding to the anxiety and we’re ready for a crap Easter holiday… though we have some stuff booked that she absolutely loves… will explore that idea though to see if it’s an option. Thank you

@JessyCarr i thought she was indifferent because until Saturday - even after the visit of the school she wouldn’t say anything she liked or disliked. She came to the school visit without an issue, wanted to see the schedule and get a map of the site. You could describe her as ambivalent. There’s definitely pros and cons and for us to wrap our heads around was difficult enough. I don’t expect a child - with valid emotions, and inbuilt fear of change, built into all of us - to be able to integrate all the variables we considered and struggled to weigh.

she flipped on Sunday / the day of the decision/ when she was getting ready to meet a few of the future classmates for a social meet up at a local park… she was getting ready and when it was time to get in the car completely kicked off / like a horse. It wasn’t a panic attack it was more like a tantrum I’m not going / you can’t make me.

so that was probably a mistake and put too much pressure on her

I would love nothing more but for her to open and tell us what’s going on in there but she is a very internal person. i don’t want to patronise her but I know books and the written language and stories are ways in which she can tap into her emotions.

Usually she opens up last thing in the day when putting her to bed. But you could say she has in general a poor ability to express her emotions at best of time and keeps them bottled up inside. Her other 2 siblings aren’t like that.

i really want to listen, she just hasn’t given us anything except - I’ll miss my friends and I don’t want to go.

i have even considered the following: she was ambivalent BUT ever since she missed 2 periods at her current school to visit the school all her class is aware she could move. Maybe it’s easier for her as a narrative to leave her current friends if she’s “forced to” than if she says she wants to. It’s a very hard thing to say to your friends/ I’m leaving you because I want to. ? Just a thought.

thanks @HaveringGold for the helpful suggestions

and for those who think we are making a huge mistake thank you for your concern. I feel ok with where we landed because I know I really considered everything I could, including her views, including even the horrible stats of MH issues in girls at that age.. toughest decision because it carries risks, it’s undeniable.

OP posts: