Secondary School Appeal

And I fully understand the point you are making, as I stated in my last post. I am simply saying that actually there are shades of grey that mean dividing consideration of SEN provision into EHCP and ‘other’ will not be so simple for some appeals panels, even if it is for yours. Our own school provides interventions for children on support plans that other local schools don’t.

But SEN provision is not as clear cut as you are making out

I'm not making it out to be clear cut. You are barking up the wrong tree. I'm explaining the argument that many schools will use to successfully defend appeals similar to the op's.

Well, you said “Whether it is SEN or SEND, it doesn't have an EHCP so any school should be able to cope with it” and setting aside the unfortunate use of ‘it’ for a child, adding in ‘in principle’ in some of your other posts doesn’t really dilute the impression you are giving.

I completely understand the way an appeals panel is required to approach appeals, and the considerations they must apply. But SEN provision is not as clear cut as you are making out - maybe it is in your own experience but certainly provisions for children on support plans can vary wildly between schools.

Just to lend my support- definitely appeal.
Twenty-three years ago we were in your position, and I can still remember how worried we were about our child.
We got through on the waiting list, it took about 6 weeks.
The other thing to consider is how many students (of all situations) fail to settle in the first term of secondary school - a few places become available by the end of the first half term. Obviously you would hope not to have wait this long, for many reasons. However if you are sure this is the school for her, and don’t win on appeal, remember this and keep her on the waiting list, and keep in touch with the school.

"I think also asserting that if a child has needs over and above what any school can meet they will have an EHCP is a naive statement"

I didn't assert this. You have mis-read. I said "in principle" it is the case and that while it may not be the case in practice, appeal panels aren't generally qualified to judge.

I think also asserting that if a child has needs over and above what any school can meet they will have an EHCP is a naive statement in a climate of intense LA gatekeeping on EHCAs and subsequent plans. Schools in our LA are being asked to apply non-statutory limitations to applications, requests are being routinely rejected with up to a year’s wait for tribunals, and statutory deadlines are consistently being breached by some time. This is standard across the board. It really is not surprising that parents are very keen to find the schools that have an embedded ethos or approach that supports non-ECHP pupils better than others do.

"All schools should be able to cater for ADHD and dyslexia, but many schools can't. They either lack the expertise or the understanding"

I'm certain you're right, but try proving it at an appeal! If offered school X says "we lack expertise and understanding of dyslexia and adhd" on their website, you're onto a winner, but they are much more likely to have SEN provision that meets statutory requirement, and an SEN report on their website that proves it (it's a statutory publication, so all schools should have one).

Yes, you can say that appeal school Y is "better", but if school X caters for the need then your case is weak.

tripz I would echo lougle in saying that personal experience should not always be extrapolated nationwide. I used to work in a primary school with an extreme number of in-year appeals. From that experience, I might conclude that it is normal to have an in-year appeal hearing with multiple applicants at least fortnightly and for these to be almost universally unsuccessful. I do, however, know that this is not the case for all schools; in fact I would say we were an outlier. Similarly, if all your local schools are equally good for pupils with some SEN,and thus all appeals on those grounds fail, then that is great but is not universal, and I would say that it is more normal for sone pupils with SEN to win appeals.

@Meadows11 were there closer schools that you could have applied for? Generally if the distance is more than 3 miles to the allocated school you qualify for transport, but if you actually requested the school on you CAF and there were other closer schools that she would have qualified for, then it can get tricky.

@tripz I know it's really hard when you have been exposed to a particular situation that shapes your view on a situation, but you are presenting your views as facts. All schools should be able to cater for ADHD and dyslexia, but many schools can't. They either lack the expertise or the understanding. Additionally, tell me what 'ADHD' looks like? Some schools do really well with children who have inattentive ADHD, but don't cope well with children who display their ADHD with quite disruptive behaviours.

"Maybe not equally well. A school may gave specific expertise; a specific unit or may otherwise be better set up for certain SEN"

Of course not equally well. Many people appeal because they want to go to a school that is "better" in some way. But "specific units" are funded by EHCP money. Non-EHCP students at those schools can benefit from them too, but that doesn't mean every child in the city with dyslexia/adhd has a strong case for admittance above other children.

Anyway, we're going round in circles now. I just wanted the op to know what the school's defence might be. As I said, we get SEN/pastoral appeals to our school frequently, and none have been successful yet.

“But dyslexia and adhd can be catered for in any school.”

Maybe not equally well. A school may gave specific expertise; a specific unit or may otherwise be better set up for certain SEN. Or, as in the OP’s case, may be reached by accessible transport or offer a particular curriculum that may suit a particular child (eg some secondaries have some or all classes in early KS3 set up in a ‘primary’ model of form rooms and even class teachers, which may benefit children with specific learning difficulties.)

Your sweeping statement about all schools is simply not true, and your posts do seem to have a ‘don’t appeal’ agenda that may be unhelpful to many parents with appeal options open to them at this emotionally fraught time of year.

But dyslexia and adhd can be catered for in any school

Very few schools sign up to the dyslexia friendly award. A lot of teachers know nothing about ADHD and dyslexia - children are often punished for there deficits - I know my child was one of them.

Thanks Lougle. You put it much more clearly and succinctly than I did.

"So a child who has eg a physical impairment (eg mild cerebral palsy) but no other SEN may not have an EHCP, especially if they have always been in a small primary. However, the detriment to them of being in a large school on a huge site with multiple sets of stairs to navigate (or lifts in far corners with ling walks) is still great, and may very well outweigh the detriment to the smaller, more compact school being appealed to."

Yes, it might, but that is not the op's case is it? 🙄 In the case you describe, the appeal would be on the basis of mobility issues, which can easily be proven, as can the layout of the school, so a strong case can be made. But dyslexia and adhd can be catered for in any school.

Panels are able to determine if evidence is supplied that indicates a school is better able to meet a child's needs though. So if parents have a letter from a professional that states that their preferred school would be better for the child, it can be taken into account.

The thing is, what has to be demonstrated is that the detriment to that particular child outweighs the detriment to the school of admitting an extra pupil. So a child who has eg a physical impairment (eg mild cerebral palsy) but no other SEN may not have an EHCP, especially if they have always been in a small primary. However, the detriment to them of being in a large school on a huge site with multiple sets of stairs to navigate (or lifts in far corners with ling walks) is still great, and may very well outweigh the detriment to the smaller, more compact school being appealed to.

It is quite simply not reasonable to say ‘no EHCP = any school can meet need without detriment’. And appeal data shows thus - that children with needs but no EHCP win appeals.

They don't have EHCP's because, in principle, their needs can be catered for by any mainstream school. I know that many parents get stuck within the process of applying for an EHCP, and that can be really distressing, but appeals panels are not qualified to consider whether one school is better able to cater for special educational needs than another. The training given to panel members in my borough makes that very clear.

@tripz every parent has the right to appeal and nobody should be telling them not to. About 20% of the school population have SEN and only 5% (up from 2% pre-pandemic) have EHCPs. That means that 15% of pupils have identifiable SEN without the protection of an EHCP. Those are exactly the sort of people who benefit from the appeal system.

@Meadows11 yes, appeal.

That's why you never do that. You always need to put a 'banker' school locally that you'd be happy to go to..............good luck with the appeal, hopefully others will learn from your mistake.

Absolutely appeal OP. The cost or not to schools, LAs or academies is not your concern. You did not create this system, you just have to try your best to navigate it.

Firstly make sure you accept the offer you have. This won't change the outcome of any appeals or wait list places but if you don't accept, the LA won't be obliged to find you another place. You'll have to do that yourself.

Then get yourself onto the waiting lists for the schools you want. Some LAs do this automatically for your higher preference schools others don't. Also check to make sure they have you in the correct category on that waiting list eg catchment, distance etc

Also check that admissions have the correct address for you. Getting a digit wrong on your street address could make a difference if the last admitted distance is very close.

Look at advice on here about appealing places. You need to show that the school you want has things that will benefit your daughter. So not how terrible the other school is but specific things the school you want does do that would benefit your child.

If the school you want is over subscribed then you need to show that the detriment to your daughter of not attending is greater than the detriment to the school of having an extra pupil.

Generally transportation issues aren't considered (having to catch multiples buses etc) but it won't hurt to explain that because of your daughter's additional needs she could/will find this much harder or impossible.

Good luck

Even if they are oversubscribed it doesn’t mean you have no chance of getting in does it? If you didn’t apply to them it might be worth seeing if they have waitlists also

I think free school transport (in the areas I am used to) only applies if you applied for all the closest schools in the normal application round but were not placed in any. It’s not available for people who don’t get closer schools only because they didn’t apply for them, and so get placed further away.