Admissions day - tips and info if you are disappointed.

Thank you. I will wait and see what happens. I don't think we will appeal if he doesn't get a place.

In my area (a London Borough) they usually go out as a batch in late March, but it may be different where you are. The new batch of offers triggers further acceptances/rejections so there are further waves of offers after that, though they eventually become a trickle rather than a wave.

Your local authority will publish an appeals deadline. So long as you meet that deadline your appeal will be considered at the same time as all the other appellants. In my area it is mid April, so after the second round of offers.

Are the second round offered at the end of April (or by the end of April). With a grammar application if they reached the score for selected entry but didn't get a place due to out of catchment applicants getting a higher mark would you look to appeal after second round?

Then perhaps the answer is to give longer to make appeals.

Answer this though, if your child was allocated a school that requires improvement and has dismal exam result, with literally no chance to get into a good school because of how your LA draws the boundaries, would you honestly just accept that? Would you think to yourself, oh well, she’s statistically unlikely to get 5 GCSE passes but if I appeal I might inconvenience children who are going to receive a good education? Or would you try to fight and advocate for your child. My husband and I are the only ones fighting for our child so morally, my conscience is clear

That’s good to hear! I’ve never before heard of anyone being able to change their preferences post-allocation.

Thank you for replying @TeenDivided and @PanelChair .
On advice of the LEA Admissions team I was able to change order of preferences in the online parent portal and hold the initial offer place open, pending the outcome of second round allocations.
I thought I’d update for info for anyone else in a similar position.

Changing the order of preferences is an option while applications are still pending, so isn’t relevant once the initial offers have been made. Now, you need to make sure you’re on the waiting list for the lower preference school you would now prefer. Generally, as you’ve been offered your first preference, the admissions authority won’t place you on waiting lists, so you need to make an explicit request for this.

@SlobDylan I don't think there is any difference. You can't just change order of preference at this stage, you need to ask to go on the waiting list for your previous second choice.

Hello, I’ve posted a separate thread, but wonder if the very helpful and knowledgeable posters here can help me.

I’m not clear on the difference between - nor the merits of - changing order of preferences, vs. going on waiting list.

we received an offer for first choice place, but would like to explore option of changing to second choice place (in catchment). Any advice gratefully received.

"You could have made your point once and it would have been OK but by continuing to stalk the Appeal threads in this way over the weekend, with your multiple posts, you are clearly attempting to derail appeals threads."

It is you that is stalking and applying pressure.🙄

My views are as valid as anybody else's. If you want my opinion to disappear, stop attacking my posts - they will soon drift off the bottom of the forum.

You clearly are pressurizing parents. You could have made your point once and it would have been OK but by continuing to stalk the Appeal threads in this way over the weekend, with your multiple posts, you are clearly attempting to derail appeals threads.

If the Academy chain that you represent are unable to afford meet the costs of their statutory obligations to hear appeals - well perhaps they would be better off getting out of education.

It would be better to read the room and not constantly harass distressed parents.

@tripz Yes, I know there is an annual service charge. I am speculating, based on what I know of costs, that the annual service charge doesn't actually cover all of the fixed costs and some of them are bundled into the per appeal charge.

"For example, not all areas operate a specific second round of admissions"

When offers are sent out on National Offer Day, parents are asked to accept or decline them by a certain date. The declined offers are re-offered. That is the "second round of admissions". You might call it something else in your area, and the re-offers may go out individually rather than as a batch, but the outcome is the same - more places are likely to come up before the appeal deadline, so there is no rush to appeal.

Also, as mentioned on another thread, all on-time appeals are heard and decided at the same time, so again, there is no rush to appeal. Waiting until nearer the appeal deadline will not disadvantage people.

All voices are valid, so long as inaccuracies can be challenged. You can disagree with with my opinion, but I'm giving a perspective based on many years of experience.

Hence me disagreeing with you, and pointing out inaccuracies.

I dislike the increasing number of posts (mainly from you) suggesting that it is irresponsible or selfish to follow the process available to them.

My views are just as valid as anybody else's. Most of us here are parents. Some (like me) also work or volunteer for schools in some capacity. Others work for Local Authorities, or sit on appeals panels, or make their living as lawyers in the education sector. All voices are valid, so long as inaccuracies can be challenged. You can disagree with with my opinion, but I'm giving a perspective based on many years of experience. We are seeing appeal numbers rise, partly due to increased application numbers, but also on the back of online encouragement for parents to appeal (from multiple sources, not just here). The appeals to our school have had a 0% success rate in recent years - even cases that seemed strong were thrown out, because our case for being full is solid, and there is another school nearby that provides everything a mainstream secondary should provide, but isn't full. I think parents should proceed with their eyes open to local contextual factors.

Parents don’t have control over their costs either.

And as discussed yesterday, I (and others) think it is irresponsible to lay it on thick and try to suggest that parents shouldn’t use a legal process available to them because of costs that they have no control over, and which are a feature of the set up of academies and taking them out of LA control and service provision, for them to use the funding accordingly.

It is factually correct that parents have nothing to lose. I dislike the increasing number of posts (mainly from you) suggesting that it is irresponsible or selfish to follow the process available to them.

As also pointed out previously - data on previous appeals has limited use. There’s no way of knowing the strength of the cases involved in previous years, so be cautious when suggesting that people should use that as a guide to whether or not their appeal is likely to be successful. Blanket statements of ‘that won’t wash’ aren’t helpful or fair.

There is no way of knowing the strength of the current cases without following the appeals process. You are not an appeals panel. You do not know what cases may or may not be successful or what the bar will be (and nor does anyone else, hence the advice that the only way to find out is to try).

You are also giving information across threads specific to your set up and your LA. For example, not all areas operate a specific second round of admissions. The adamance that appeals get admitted because LA schools put up weak defences because the LA won’t let them increase PAN is also likely to be a local quirk/situation - it doesn’t scan for schools in my area.

The very vast majority of people on these threads are focused on providing accurate and factual information about the process and how it works. Yours increasingly come across as ‘it’s not fair’. Which it isn’t, but that energy is (in my opinion) being directed at the wrong people in the wrong way.

IMHO, if someone posts here and has no grounds at all, they do get politely told that

Or they are advised to be realistic about their chances of success.

And things that really don't win appeals (like transport, childcare, denomination etc) are always pointed out

It is entirely right that parents use their right of appeal
20% (ie one in five) appeals for secondary schools succeed

"I suspect the £400 per appeal includes some of the fixed costs, so the per appeal cost would go up if fewer parents appeal."

No, there is an annual service charge too.

£400 is for an individual appeal. A group appeal is a little less. However, the point is that schools have no control over these costs. I'm as much in favour of the right to appeal as anyone else, but as it is not cost-free, I don't like the increasing trend on these threads and elsewhere of encouragement for parents to "have a go" because they have "nothing to lose". I think it is irresponsible.

Some people reply responsibly. Some don't. Some might reply more responsibly in future if they understand the bigger picture.

I suspect the £400 per appeal includes some of the fixed costs, so the per appeal cost would go up if fewer parents appeal. However, I may be wrong.

Let us imagine that the government did abolish the right of appeal. What would happen is that any parent wanting to appeal would go to the courts for judicial review - the government can't stop that. That might deter some parents from appealing, but it would be far more expensive for schools. They would, in theory, be able to recover their costs from any parents who lost. In practice, they wouldn't recover their full costs and may not be able to recover anything. For every appeal they lost, they would have to pay the parents' legal costs as well as their own.

Parents aren’t abusing their right of appeal. They’re simply using it (and, as you acknowledge, most don’t). Which of the main parties do you envisage would offer a manifesto commitment to abolish the right of appeal?

"but parents have a right to an appeal and I would never discourage parents exercising that right"

Like all rights, it just needs to be balanced with responsibility. Many thousands of parents don't get the school they want for their child - where would we be if they all appealed? If people abuse the right to appeal, it may end up being withdrawn.

But it is true that parents have nothing to
lose, and that is worth reiterating because I have seen parents concerned that they may be bumped to the bottom of the waiting list, or removed from the waiting list entirely, or face some other consequence. I do take your point that there is a cost to the school, but that is not on parents, and it would be untrue to say otherwise.

Yes it does cost schools but parents have a right to an appeal and I would never discourage parents exercising that right. Sometimes things come out in questioning from the panel that swings the decision for the appellant. Some panels make decisions that others wouldn't. Some schools have cases that are weak and so it isn't a high bar to jump at stage 2.
Appreciate that finances are tough across education but discouraging parents from appealing is not right at all. It is their legal right.

I'm not pressurising parents, I'm giving them the facts, to balance out some of the "go ahead, you've got nothing to lose" messages they get from some people (not everyone) on these threads.