Appealing a secondary school place

It isn't always as difficult as you think @SpaceInvader321 . You're absolutely right that there can be bumps in the EHCP process, but the bar is very high for a school to say they can't meet need, and the LA can override maintained schools and name them even if they say they can't meet need (as long as the LA believes they can).

I'm not saying that to put you off appealing - absolutely do. I'm just trying to encourage you that it isn't always as fraught with difficulty as you may think (I have children with EHCPs).

Unfortunately, it's not that straightforward either. We can seek to name a school on an EHCP but it's pretty standard practice where we are for a lot of sought-after schools to argue that they can't meet a child's needs (eg, admitting the child would be 'incompatible with the education of others') ... which leads to another appeal/delay in the process. It's not as simple as saying which school we want and then getting a place there.

Slim chance maybe, but I think it's worth appealing, even if I stupidly ☹️ didn't put the school first. Our child's circumstances have changed and his needs have been more clearly defined in the past few months.

Thanks, everyone.

@SpaceInvader321 Agree with @Lougle that you have good grounds for an appeal. Also, if you get an EHCP, you will be able to name the school you want and they will have to admit your son.

@Lougle It should be a 20-week process but if your LA delays by refusing to assess (a common practice) and then refuses to issue, it can drag out for a long time. We started the process last June and are just now starting the actual assessment. If they refuse to issue, the appeal could take another several months.

@ThatBeverleyMacca very happy to benefit from your obsession. Thank you again. 😁 We are in England but we're not from the UK originally, so aspects of the system are still a bit mind-boggling.

"at the school we want, 230 out of 232 places went to those who put it first."

That just means it's a very popular school, not that those people were prioritised. As pp's have said, schools are not allowed to prioritise on preference, only on the basis of their own oversubscription criteria (which will be on their website). The LA sees your preference list, but the school doesn't - the school only sees high level stats like the one you mentioned.

I’m afraid you are if you are in England. I have a bit of an obsession with school admissions (strange I know!) and it’s not the way it works. It’s a very common misconception but it has been illegal to prioritise applicants by putting the school first since about 2007.

Anyway, as I said you still have a chance of admission from the waiting list and appeals, and I really hope you do get your place

Thanks, @ThatBeverleyMacca . The LA publishes the data on applications and at the school we want, 230 out of 232 places went to those who put it first. They had over 1500 applications for those 232 places. The numbers are similar for the school we were offered, so I still think that we could very possibly have missed out getting the place we got if we had put it second. But maybe I'm wrong.

This is incorrect. All admissions decisions are irrelevant when it comes to appeal. You are no more likely to win or lose an appeal based on what you put on your CAF.

@SpaceInvader321 yes, those could be good reasons to appeal. It's unfortunate that you thought putting the second school first would stop you getting either place, but what's done is done. It concerns me that you are talking about the 'long slow process' of getting an EHCP. The legal time frame is 20 weeks. When did you apply?

Unfortunately you have misunderstood how admissions work. You should always put the schools in your genuine order of preference. Schools do not prioritise people who put them first, but instead every application is treated equally, whether it is someone’s first choice or their sixth, and you are then offered the school that you listed highest that is able to offer you a place. Someone who listed a school sixth would get a place over someone who listed it first if the person who listed it sixth met the admissions criteria better (e.g. by living nearer) and didn’t get into any schools that they listed higher. It isn’t that they work down the list of people who listed them first, then second, then third, and so on.

However, you are still entitled to appeal for the school that you listed second, and it is also worth contacting the LA to put yourself on the waiting list for the school, as there is often lots of movement before September so a place may come up that way. I’ll leave it to the experts to comment on your chances of success but best of luck

Hello, new to the thread.

Our LA's schools website says you can appeal for a place at any school you applied to, so could I please run this scenario by the group?

DC has been offered the school we put as first choice, which was the best school that we were likely to get given the distance criteria. The school we put as second choice is the school I think would actually be best for him. Both are highly oversubscribed and I thought putting the second school first would run the risk of us not getting the school we have been allocated because they'd have enough people putting it first that no-one who put it second would get in. Hope that makes sense?

Since we applied in October there have been significant developments in understanding DS's special needs. He has been diagnosed with autism and ADHD and we're in the long slow process of applying for an EHCP.

There are (I think) valid reasons why school 2 would a better fit for him (eg, calmer more structured environment that would enable him to focus better, and normal-length class periods instead of a timetable of all double-periods that the school we've been offered follows).

Do we have any chance of success if we appeal? Is it worth trying in this case? Thank you!

It’s very clear in the relevant codes that parents aren’t offered a choice, they’re offered the opportunity to express a preference, which each school’s admissions criteria may or may not be able to accommodate.

In my experience, panels understand that the schools parents list are those they’d be willing to accept, not necessarily those they think are a perfect fit for their child.

Another thing to remember is that the panel is looking for evidence of why the child needs a place at the appeal school and will face prejudice (detriment) if they don’t get it. This goes beyond things like number of GCSE options, whether it’s a single sex or faith school, which are generally more about parental preference than they are the child’s needs.

I think this whole system is ridiculous. People are given the illusion of choice, but there isn’t any.

its also unfair that you have been given a school further away from others which you haven’t been offered a place for. We were in similar situation. Lots of school nearby but with tiny catchments.

everyones banker school should be the one closest.

Thank you for taking the time to respond; that's very helpful.

"They offer 10 GCSEs rather than 9 and DS is very academic"

No. 9 GCSEs are enough, and more than many schools, so your child won't be significantly disadvantaged by it, and certainly not enough to warrant forcing the preferred school over numbers so that their student:staff ratio increases.

Most chn go on to A Level at the same school (ditto)

No. A levels are 5 years away, and many students transfer to other schools - it's very common. Ditto re numbers.

Preferred school is non-religious

No (unfortunately). Faith schools have to cater for children from non-religious backgrounds.

There is nothing exceptional in your reasons. You may be lucky - the school may put up a weak defence However, if it were possible to routinely win appeals on such run-of-the-mill grounds the school would be swamped with appeals, and crammed to the rafters.

Is the preferred school an academy or an LA-run school? You may have more chance with the latter. Sometimes, popular LA-run schools want to increase their PAN for financial reasons, but the LA won't let them because there is too much local capacity (i.e. space in less popular schools). If so, the school may put up a weak defence which goes in your favour. However, you also may find that the presenting officer is from the LA, not the school, in which case you're stuffed.

It's always a good idea to check the school's appeals stats for recent years.

I know what you mean @Pardonnezmoimadame but during applications the advice is usually to put a "banker" school that is your least worst option so you don't get a random school.

All our closest schools had very small distances last offer day so we were borderline. We visited three more distant schools that had "admitted all" in the local admissions info for the last few years and chose one as our 6th choice.

As it turns out all the distances offered were even smaller this year, so we have been offered the banker.

Following

You appeal for the school you want, not against the one you have been allocated, so this makes little sense.

The strong advice is always to use all of your choices (preferences). Panels know the process and know that parents may list a ‘banker’ school or other schools. That won’t be held against them. By that argument they wouldn’t hold waiting lists either.

The advice is always to list them in your true order of preference (with your safest option in there somewhere), so no you shouldn’t list a school you don’t want first, but in many areas of the country, there are very few schools to list.

Not using your preferences/only listing one school/declining a lower offer could be more detrimental, as it could
look like you are trying to game the system/pressure the panel if you are left without a school.

We were told that if you don’t want your kid to go to a certain school, don’t put it on the list.

it means you have already said that school is suitable for your son. It means an appeal is much more difficult.

i know it’s really tough, but honestly, people get so upset about this. In reality, i think its very difficult for parents to make considered judgments on schools on the basis of an old ofsted report and a 30 minute tour.

i have to say while i may have liked ‘the vibe’ of one school over another, it was basically just about posters on the walls. One school was much the same as the others. My DD got her second choice, but really I’d have been happy with any of the 6 we chose.

as long as you chose a good school, it will be fine

Following. We're in a similar situation except that my son got offered our third choice. I really don't think the school is right for him for several reasons.
I'm very interested in these responses.

You say she was given your second choice though?

It is harder to appeal if you’ve actually stated a preference for another school and it has been offered to you.

The links below may be useful in helping to prepare an appeal if that's what you decide to do. I'd also advise a call to the LA education department who may be able to give you some further advice.

The information I've given so far was from my own experience, and other people have found things differently.

You have a right to appeal so gathering up as much relevant information about your child and the school you are appealing to is the best place to start. In the meantime accept the offer so that your child has a place for September. As a PP says there may be movement before now and then with waiting lists but you don't want to be without a place if the appeal doesn't go your way.

Best of luck

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/admission-appeals-for-school-places/advice-for-parents-and-guardians-on-school-admission-appeals

https://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice/school-admissions-and-appeals/disappointed-with-the-school-place-offered-to-your-child/

You can appeal for whatever reason you want to. If you've had a refusal, you have that right.

However, to be successful you will need to prove that it would be more detrimental for your child not to have a place than it would be for the school to accept them.

It's unlikely enrichment activities will swing this for you.

If a place becomes available via the waiting list, admissions will contact you. And you can lose at appeal but still get a place from the waiting list

Yes, the appeal process is completely separate to waiting lists.

It would be good to see the appeals system move towards a "loser pays" model in future.

God yes a model where the rich can get places at desirable schools while the deserving poor can't would be amazing. FFS.