Secondary school place allocation - 1 March

My point was just that a defined catchment area and using distance are different admissions systems used by different schools and areas.

Not really. There are schools that arebusing both at the same time: catchment and distance. And there is a logic to it. Do not oversimplify

You talked about London using catchments, then others said that most of London doesn’t have set catchment areas and uses distance

Not quite

E.g. Tiffin Girls have catchment Designated Inner and Outer area + they use combination of distance and passing mark. If several passed at the same level then distance is used. But all got to be within catchment. And different percentage is applied to different catchments

E.g. Turing school. Even if open their document Pattern of admission 2023 you see catchment and then within those they offer basing on proximity to school and proximity to so called nodal point in the split 20-80 perc

E.g Catholic schools. Catchment are parishes and they offer randomly across parishes if there is more candidates than places. or they have specific order in which parishes go, or it is distance but within catchments

There is no such thing as "only distance in London". In London there are many many schools with variety of rules

@ILickedItSoItsMine you can live a mile from my DDs school and be out of catchment, or live 5 miles away in a different direction and be in catchment. So children further away can be given places before ones closer. Whereas on just distance arrangements, the child further away would lose out to the one closer.

(This is fair system for here... its every village has a catchment school, but the schools aren't spread out evenly. The children a mile away go to another school in their own village)

@ILickedItSoItsMine My point was just that a defined catchment area and using distance are different admissions systems used by different schools and areas. You talked about London using catchments, then others said that most of London doesn’t have set catchment areas and uses distance from the school and you said “Yes, this is catchment” so I wasn’t clear if you understood that some areas have set catchment areas for schools, which is different from using distance from the school. Yes, they work together in that most schools that use set catchment areas offer using distance within catchment and then outside it if there are places left.

I really don't understand your point. If there is a designated catchment for given school then the distance criteria are used within catchment and not outside it. Even if acceptance distance is smaller than catchment it is still within catchment and never outside. That is why the idea of catchment have been set up.
Therefore, catchment and distance work together as a part and parcel.

I really sympathise- I know school admissions are really tough to go through and there are some hard decisions. If you decide that you prefer the nearer school I believe it should be possible to ask to go on the waiting list for that school too. Don’t lose hope though as waiting lists can move a lot before September, especially in an area like London where there will probably be more people moving, etc.

No, catchment and distance are different things. A catchment area is a set map of an area that gets priority admission to a school, and some whole LAs will use this system. The admissions criteria will usually be something along the lines of children in catchment with a sibling at the school, other children in catchment, children out of catchment with a sibling, other children out of catchment by distance. Catchment boundaries are not usually circular so some children who are nearer to the school by distance will be ‘out of catchment’ and some further away will be in catchment.

Other schools and areas use distance from the school rather than a set catchment area. People sometimes colloquially refer to the distance reached that year as the catchment but this distance will change every year.

@ThatBeverleyMacca thanks... I will accept and go on the waiting list.

But I feel awful, like I made a mistake? The school we are offered is not amazing, just a good new academy; and its so far away... there is another academy near us which was the last on my list, I put it on just in case - not a great school, ok academically but not inspiring, attended by mainly real inner city type kids. But now I'm wondering if its worth for my son to travel that far for a slightly better school? Should I have considered this school? I could have never imagined we would not get into any of the top preferred schools. He is distraught, most of his friends go to these schools. Just feels so unfair - because we live slightly further away (((

Things aren’t different in London- @localnotail as LilySLE says you most definitely need to accept the place you’ve been offered. This doesn’t stop you going on the waiting list for the school you prefer and doesn’t in any way reduce your chances of being offered it. If you reject the place you’ve been offered the LA have done their duty and don’t need to offer you anything else. As others have said, always accept the place you are offered today, even if you intend to use waiting lists or appeal for a school you prefer, unless you are prepared to home educate or go private.

@LilySLE I’m not sure which LA you are in but I’ve only heard of Hertfordshire using the system where you are automatically given a place at schools you are on the waiting list for and losing your original place without being asked, but it unfortunately seems to be becoming more common. I really dislike it and it risks going against the Admissions Code as others have said. The majority of LAs will contact you if a place comes up at a school you are on the waiting list for and give you a few days to decide whether you want to accept or stick with your original school.

Thank you PatriciaHolme I was just panicking reading this thread & then I thought 'It's nearly midnight, what if I have to accept by midnight?!'

It says 'If your child has been offered a school place in (our county) then the school will contact you directly to discuss arrangements for September'

You may well not have to - many LAs assume acceptance. Their website should say what the process is now.

Hello, can I jump in & ask a question?

I keep reading about 'Accepting the offer'. How do I do this?

I received notice that my child has our first choice of school this morning but it just says that I will now be contacted by the school, I can't see anywhere that I have to accept it? I don't want to lose the place (Sorry if I'm being thick!)

Got our results, 5th school on the list - not a bad school but miles away (30 mins on the bus) and also a school not one of my sons friends are going to. He is very upset. No idea whether to accept it, or wait for the (very small) chance of getting in to our first choice school all the local kids are trying to get to. Its really crap, this school is just under 1km from us - but too far, apparently as we need to be 300-400m away from it - they are very strict on their catchment requirements. We are in London.

In our area a lot of people eg put a massively over subscribed school down as an outside chance.
They get pref 2 which is a great school. (or others). The wait list for pref1 is like 200 kids.
But then most decide to stick with the good school they got allocated as kids have it in their heads etc and they know loads of others going there. They get the info pack and welcome info etc
Pref1 then has loads of private school kids decline their place.. and start working down their list... in my DCs year pref1 school were still offering people at no40 on the list by Oct.. and everyone I know then turned it down ..,

That’s a good point and an issue here. I just checked and here an offer is made in each round for acceptance. So potentially more faffing.

However that is interesting from @PatriciaHolm because it sort of seems a bit of a reach that could be challenged

@Gobbolinothewitchscat Parents have to choose to go wait list or remove themselves.
The choice is there. Forced early.
In some ways it works as then the wait lists move faster and more accurately.
In our area .. wait list offer made, parents faff about deciding, then may decline it. That adds a delay for someone else. With hundreds of children on wait lists it slows it all down.

"It removes all element of choice from a parent. Is the policy written down? I can't work out how it operates because lots of schools are their own admission authorities - so how would it even be enforced as how would the schools communicate with each other to "withdraw" the original offer when the second forced offer is made?"

It's highly questionable, as it goes against the admissions code that says places can't be withdrawn unless in very specific circumstances.

The LAs involved tend to argue that by going on waiting lists, parents have agreed in advance that they want to turn down the first place in favour of the newly offered one.

I think I'm being really thick and missing something - what if you're on two waiting lists? How can they work out the "preference". Is it from the CAF?

That is also quite an "assumption"

It removes all element of choice from a parent. Is the policy written down? I can't work out how it operates because lots of schools are their own admission authorities - so how would it even be enforced as how would the schools communicate with each other to "withdraw" the original offer when the second forced offer is made?

@LilySLE
I see. But what if you say choose to go on the waitlist for schools 1 and 2, having been allocated school 3. And then if a space comes up at school 2 and you have to commit to that, can you theoretically move again to school 1? Or is it basically tough shit if a place at school 2 comes up before school 1.