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Secondary school place allocation - 1 March

216 replies

LilySLE · 29/02/2024 20:12

How is everyone feeling about the fact that we find out tomorrow which secondary school our Year 6 children will be going to?

I am wondering whether to stay up till midnight to wait for the email 🙈

OP posts:
localnotail · 02/03/2024 10:30

I was wondering if I have grounds to appeal? The school we were given is too far away, it would not work with my work situation - I work full time. How these appeals work? I'm a single parent working full time and need a school my kid can walk to, or walk to his childminder for food when I'm in the office all day. He cant be at home on his own.
I'm kicking myself for putting this school on the list, what an idiot... I was hoping my work would be ok with me taking him, but I got promoted so no chance now.

LilySLE · 02/03/2024 10:27

ThatBeverleyMacca · 02/03/2024 10:25

@LilySLE Just to clarify, what you said about where you rank a school not being a factor in whether you get a place is most definitely true across all of England, and is not dependent on area. This has been the law nationally since about 2007 and even in some areas for more than 20 years Smile

As you were saying earlier though, the admissions process is very widely misunderstood and people thinking that those who put a school first get priority is a very widely held misconception, even though it is almost 20 years since this was even legal.

Thanks; that’s interesting and good to know. I was just cautious because there appear to be so many other geographical differences!

I have been to at least one school open evening where the headteacher was saying “if you want us, you need to put us first”. It made me really cross as I knew that wasn’t true.

OP posts:
ThatBeverleyMacca · 02/03/2024 10:25

@LilySLE Just to clarify, what you said about where you rank a school not being a factor in whether you get a place is most definitely true across all of England, and is not dependent on area. This has been the law nationally since about 2007 and even in some areas for more than 20 years Smile

As you were saying earlier though, the admissions process is very widely misunderstood and people thinking that those who put a school first get priority is a very widely held misconception, even though it is almost 20 years since this was even legal.

LilySLE · 02/03/2024 10:23

PuttingDownRoots · 02/03/2024 10:18

@Nicky198 it depends what alternative plan you have... private school back up, home education etc. Is this school worse than no school.

Its worth checking no mistake has been made. Similarly there may be something you don't know, like your neighbours child is adopted or has SEN.

This is a very good point. Could there be circumstances you are not aware of? SEN by themselves usually won’t make a difference but if the child has an EHCP that names the school that will. they would normally know where they are going before 1 March though.

I couldn’t understand how a family near us had got into a school as all my research showed places were never allocated out this far. Turns out the child was eligible for pupil premium (single parent family), and for this particular school that was a higher priority criterion.

OP posts:
LilySLE · 02/03/2024 10:19

Nicky198 · 02/03/2024 10:14

Thank you. There is no sibling and no priorities for the neighbour, just they put it as first choice and we put it as 3rd- the school is walking distance (1mile) the school they have given us is (4.5miles) and totally on the other side of town which is a nightmare to reach in the mornings and unfortunately is undersubscribed and has lots of spaces. The schools we wanted are now full, do you think there’s still room for movement etc , I’m hoping he will get into one of the ones on our list but I am quite tempted to decline the offer given as it just feels unrealistic and unfortunately the school as a poor reputation within our area hence it being undersubscribed

Please don’t decline your place; you could be left with no place at all. Accepting this place shouldn’t affect your chances if you go on a waiting list for a school you listed as a higher priority, as has been said higher up on this thread. Local authority communications should explain how to go on a waiting list.

The neighbour thing is odd. At least where I live, where you rank a school is not a factor which determines whether or not you are eligible for a place. Either something has gone wrong here (have you considered appealing?), or you must be very very near the top of the waiting list. Definitely worth investigating further

OP posts:
PuttingDownRoots · 02/03/2024 10:18

@Nicky198 it depends what alternative plan you have... private school back up, home education etc. Is this school worse than no school.

Its worth checking no mistake has been made. Similarly there may be something you don't know, like your neighbours child is adopted or has SEN.

Clearinguptheclutter · 02/03/2024 10:18

dont decline the place. You accept it as a worse case scenario and go on waiting lists for some/all of the others. There will be movement for example some parents will take up private places in the next 1-2 weeks.

the fact that your neighbour put the closest school as 1st choice and you put it 3rd will be almost certainly irrelevant. But if they got in you could be the top of the waiting list.

ThatBeverleyMacca · 02/03/2024 10:17

Nicky198 · 02/03/2024 10:14

Thank you. There is no sibling and no priorities for the neighbour, just they put it as first choice and we put it as 3rd- the school is walking distance (1mile) the school they have given us is (4.5miles) and totally on the other side of town which is a nightmare to reach in the mornings and unfortunately is undersubscribed and has lots of spaces. The schools we wanted are now full, do you think there’s still room for movement etc , I’m hoping he will get into one of the ones on our list but I am quite tempted to decline the offer given as it just feels unrealistic and unfortunately the school as a poor reputation within our area hence it being undersubscribed

The neighbour putting it as first choice and you putting it as third will make no difference to you getting a place if you didn’t get your first and second preference. Schools don’t give priority to people who put them first- all preferences are treated equally. If they definitely don’t have any circumstances that put them in a higher category to you then it is very good news as it suggests that you will be very high up on the waiting list.

Definitely do not decline the school you have been offered though unless you are prepared to go private or home school. Accepting the place you’ve been given won’t affect your chances of getting into a school you prefer by waiting list or appeal, and will at least give you a ‘worst case scenario’ backup. Best of luck Smile

Nicky198 · 02/03/2024 10:14

Clearinguptheclutter · 02/03/2024 10:09

If your neighbour got your closest school then it suggests you could be near the top of the waiting list for that. Are they slightly closer as the crow flies or did they have special circumstances eg sibling already at the school

totally depends on where you are but where we are you are automatically put on waiting lists for all schools you chose above the one you were allocated. You should have an email from the authority explaining?

Thank you. There is no sibling and no priorities for the neighbour, just they put it as first choice and we put it as 3rd- the school is walking distance (1mile) the school they have given us is (4.5miles) and totally on the other side of town which is a nightmare to reach in the mornings and unfortunately is undersubscribed and has lots of spaces. The schools we wanted are now full, do you think there’s still room for movement etc , I’m hoping he will get into one of the ones on our list but I am quite tempted to decline the offer given as it just feels unrealistic and unfortunately the school as a poor reputation within our area hence it being undersubscribed

Clearinguptheclutter · 02/03/2024 10:09

Nicky198 · 02/03/2024 10:00

Any suggestions ? We didn’t get any of the schools on our list and got one the I did not want to send my son to and is too far. I can’t believe I added 6 and they couldn’t accommodate any - yet my neighbour got the one near to home which was also on my list as third. Totally confused where to go from here. Any advice would be appreciated as reaching the school they have offered will be impossible and would mean him catching 3 buses as I won’t be able to drop and collect with my little one starting nursery.

If your neighbour got your closest school then it suggests you could be near the top of the waiting list for that. Are they slightly closer as the crow flies or did they have special circumstances eg sibling already at the school

totally depends on where you are but where we are you are automatically put on waiting lists for all schools you chose above the one you were allocated. You should have an email from the authority explaining?

ILickedItSoItsMine · 02/03/2024 10:08

whiteboardking · 02/03/2024 08:30

And it's no wonder parents get confused / misunderstand admissions as even within one LA they can all differ. Which really is madness. I know in our city it does lead to those who don't fully understand the system / don't speak English etc getting the worst schools to an extent

Exactly

Nicky198 · 02/03/2024 10:03

I've sent an email to the admissions team . Does anyone know the wait lists work ?

Nicky198 · 02/03/2024 10:00

Any suggestions ? We didn’t get any of the schools on our list and got one the I did not want to send my son to and is too far. I can’t believe I added 6 and they couldn’t accommodate any - yet my neighbour got the one near to home which was also on my list as third. Totally confused where to go from here. Any advice would be appreciated as reaching the school they have offered will be impossible and would mean him catching 3 buses as I won’t be able to drop and collect with my little one starting nursery.

Clearinguptheclutter · 02/03/2024 09:30

WaitingForDucks · 01/03/2024 23:19

Thank you PatriciaHolme I was just panicking reading this thread & then I thought 'It's nearly midnight, what if I have to accept by midnight?!'

It says 'If your child has been offered a school place in (our county) then the school will contact you directly to discuss arrangements for September'

We have to physically email the authority with our child’s name and DoB, with no deadline given. Very odd. I’m sure lots of people missed that in the small print. I suspect they assume acceptance and perhaps chase you up in a fortnight.

whiteboardking · 02/03/2024 09:29

@LilySLE she could set up a new email or similar in a false name. It's all confidential anyway and would not be disclosed, or no one would ever report stuff. Depends how much she cares. In our area people were furious as they missed out on Yr7 places as a result

LilySLE · 02/03/2024 09:24

whiteboardking · 02/03/2024 09:07

You email admissions and report it with why you think it's happened. These were very clear cut cases where other reasons were ruled out. Money to have an extra property to use..,

Ah but that would involve my friend being identified as the source of the report, which she doesn’t want!

OP posts:
Lougle · 02/03/2024 09:22

I'm always fascinated by these threads (I used to sit on appeals panels). In my area, there is literally one choice. We still get 3 preferences, but the only school children in our area will get is school A. The next nearest schools, B & C are both oversubscribed and we are outside of the last distance offered by a considerable amount. I guess parents could put down schools that are many miles away, but there would be no transport (our small town has slashed public transport and we can't even get a bus directly to our nearest city now).

Lougle · 02/03/2024 09:19

PatriciaHolm · 01/03/2024 21:40

"It removes all element of choice from a parent. Is the policy written down? I can't work out how it operates because lots of schools are their own admission authorities - so how would it even be enforced as how would the schools communicate with each other to "withdraw" the original offer when the second forced offer is made?"

It's highly questionable, as it goes against the admissions code that says places can't be withdrawn unless in very specific circumstances.

The LAs involved tend to argue that by going on waiting lists, parents have agreed in advance that they want to turn down the first place in favour of the newly offered one.

Isn't it a bit of a conflicting situation? Clause 2.12 says:

"Where schools are oversubscribed, admission authorities must rank applications in accordance with their determined arrangements. The qualifying scheme must ensure that: a) only one offer per child is made by the local authority;"

In the event that a parent goes on the waiting list for a school, if they are given the choice they hold two offers.

At the same time, you're absolutely right that they shouldn't (can't) withdraw a place once it is offered unless for very specific circumstances.

I guess, ultimately, unless it is raised higher, then we won't have case law on it.

whiteboardking · 02/03/2024 09:07

You email admissions and report it with why you think it's happened. These were very clear cut cases where other reasons were ruled out. Money to have an extra property to use..,

LilySLE · 02/03/2024 08:57

whiteboardking · 02/03/2024 08:55

@LilySLE spot on. Last year admissions fraud was evident in my area. Families got reported but at least one is still at the school who had rented a flat to get in but didn't lift there. Everyone knew including their neighbours. Others as you say, lost out as didn't do all that research of different admissions criterua.
This year I know someone who is not capable of it and the child has got a school literally miles away that he can't get to. She's rejected it as ridiculous. But now at risk of no place.

How do you even go about reporting admissions fraud…? 🤔 (Asking for a friend… 👀)

OP posts:
whiteboardking · 02/03/2024 08:55

@LilySLE spot on. Last year admissions fraud was evident in my area. Families got reported but at least one is still at the school who had rented a flat to get in but didn't lift there. Everyone knew including their neighbours. Others as you say, lost out as didn't do all that research of different admissions criterua.
This year I know someone who is not capable of it and the child has got a school literally miles away that he can't get to. She's rejected it as ridiculous. But now at risk of no place.

LilySLE · 02/03/2024 08:44

whiteboardking · 02/03/2024 08:30

And it's no wonder parents get confused / misunderstand admissions as even within one LA they can all differ. Which really is madness. I know in our city it does lead to those who don't fully understand the system / don't speak English etc getting the worst schools to an extent

You are exactly right. Even my mother struggled to understand how school admissions work these days (“you’d better hurry up and put X’s name down then”; “surely you live too far away to get in there”; etc).

I feel really strongly about this. The system is too complicated, it’s inconsistent (as this thread has shown), and inaccessible. And then you find that because only certain people have the time or the inclination to wade their way through it, it self perpetuates.

The data is out there to make informed decisions, but you have to go looking for it. I am a total geek and I did masses of research; I looked at admissions criteria for all the schools I was interested in, worked out which criterion we would be eligible for (different in the case of each school), then went back 5 years and looked at the historic admissions data to see how often children from our admissions criterion had been admitted. And that’s before you get into comparing the academic performance statistics, which is another opaque exercise in itself.
And then I recorded the whole thing on an Excel spreadsheet.

As I say, I am a geek. If we are serious about social mobility in this country we need to make it easier for everyone to access, process and understand the data so that every family has the opportunity to make an informed decision about the right school for their child, and maximise their chances of getting a school they want by only listing schools on their application form that they have a realistic chance of getting. I know a number of people who have put down schools that statistically they were never going to get, just in hope or on the off chance, and have ended up with a school they really didn’t want. Conversely I know people who have played the system and obtained a place at a school they were not entitled to, which is not fair on anyone.

Equal access for all. There’s a long way to go.

OP posts:
ThatBeverleyMacca · 02/03/2024 08:42

@ILickedItSoItsMine I didn’t say it was only distance in London at all Confused I know that there are many different admissions rules in school in London, which can be fairly complex.

whiteboardking · 02/03/2024 08:30

And it's no wonder parents get confused / misunderstand admissions as even within one LA they can all differ. Which really is madness. I know in our city it does lead to those who don't fully understand the system / don't speak English etc getting the worst schools to an extent

ILickedItSoItsMine · 02/03/2024 08:29

LilySLE · 02/03/2024 08:24

I am getting the sense that there is a difference on this point in / outside of London.

Where I live (not London), and I believe in many other LAs outside London, catchment areas are a real thing, and they work independently from distance from the school.

A catchment area is a red line on a map that has been set as the area that that school has been built and designed to serve (eg as part of the planning permission process for a new school). The aim - although not always achieved - is that all children within the red line should in theory be able to secure a place, and only after that has occurred will any remaining places be offered up to children who live outside the red line.

The extent to which children outside the red line will then be able to secure a place will depend on the admissions criteria for the school in question, and may or may not be linked to distance from the school (tho distance is often used as the ultimate tiebreaker).

Even within the red line, if the school is oversubscribed and there is not enough room for all the children within the catchment area, distance may not be the deciding factor. Again, it will depend on the school’s admissions criteria, but it is very common for other factors such as siblings, feeder schools, etc, to trump distance in these circumstances.

Exactly. You described it very well. And yes, in London many schools are using it.