North London Secondary state for my DS

@daffsinvase @Hatcher I have often pondered if the 20 children from Islington are counted as the siblings from previous Islington children? Making it harder for non sibling islington residents to get in?

We are in Camden but on the border so I have never looked into it in depth. Our Islington neighbours decided against DAO as the journey is hell and we have decent alternative options.

My kids are at Archer in East Finchley and we've found it great, both for very able oldest who is taking GCSEs this year and DS with ADHD who finds learning a bit more challenging. Small catchment though, so you will need to live near in Finchley, East Finchley or Hampstead Garden Suburb - we're not that near but just got very lucky when they changed the criteria when we were applying for oldest and I think a lot of people from our postcode had given up applying at that point.

Another way of putting the same point is that the level required to be in the top 20 from Islington is the same as being in the top 80 from all the other postcodes.

@daffsinvase I am not entirely sure but the way I understand it works is as follows: there have to be at least 20 pupils from Islington every year (either from academic test or from music). 1000+ sit the exam and then ranked. The offer list goes up to rank 110 or so (give or take). If within these 100 or so places there aren’t 20 Islington kids, then the school will go down the ranks to find the next Islington applicant. In that scenario, a lower-ranked Islington candidate get an advantage. But my understanding (and I may be wrong) is that this never happens (at least not in recent years) because there are always 20 or so kids from Islington in the top 100 (some will be from the music route). So in practice this means that if you are applying from Islington you have to be in the top 100 (just like anybody else). It would be different if only a handful from Islington applied and/or obtained a rank lower than top 100.

@hatcher - totally get your point re distance from Islington - but this is another thing that makes it easier to get in if you are applying from Islington! The distance is a deal breaker for many parents who don't want their kids to face a massive commute for several years - plus there are other good state schools in the area and lots go private for senior school.

Because the school HAVE to take 20 from Islington, a candidate is going to face much less competition than those who are trying to get in from all the other eligible postcodes combined. A kid who is competing for an academic place or a musical place from Islington has a much better chance, because they are only competing against Islington kids, if you see what I mean - the odds are much better overall.

The 20 places that Dame Alice Owen reserves for Islington applicants make no practical difference because so many apply from Islington. It is as hard to get in from Islington as from other eligible postcodes. The school has done a lot to advertise itself to the Islington parents (there is an 'Islington Room' in the open day), but the commute from Islington is not easy at all. You have to get to Finsbury Park for the overground and then there is a substantial walk/bus ride in Potter's Bar. In winter months, it is harder. Several pupils from Islington do it, but for many it is a deal-breaker.

Would try for Dame Alice Owen's if you are an Islington resident - it's a great school. Parents get caught up with how 'competitive' it is, but it's not quite the case for Islington kids, because they HAVE to take 20 kids per year from the borough. If he's academic or musical then you stand a fairly good chance - under those terms, it's not not remotely as tough to get in as it is to academic privates.

APS and Fortismere are both good - APS much stricter on behaviour than Fortismere so the school environment is probably a bit calmer.

Highbury Grove/Stoke Newington/Acland Burghley are 'okay'. Have some real strengths in certain areas but struggle in others. Teaching mixed, and so is the parental makeup - a fair amount of 'middle class' families, but also a fair amount of London issues surrounding gang culture.

My DD is at Stoke Newington school. I wouldn't say it's massively middle class. I mean yes, there are MC kids there, but it's very much "mixed intake". I like the diversity there, actually; DD is learning to get along in all kinds of situations, and with people outside our neighbourhood bubble.

There seems to be quite a lot of firefighting going on at the school, but the staff are mostly great (DD agrees). And the stage & art programmes are excellent.

Also I don’t know how long you’ve lived here but I’ve never heard anyone refer to “Islington town centre” !

You need to live on the doorsteps of Fortismere and AP to get in, both are massively oversubscribed.

If you are Catholic then Finchley Catholic High admitted to almost 7.5 miles distance this year which would possibly cover you? https://www.barnet.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-10/Allocation%20Table%202023.pdf

Yes as an Islington resident you would be eligible to try for DAO https://damealiceowens.herts.sch.uk/sixth-form/admissions/secondary-transfer/local-priority-areas/

OP I understand what you're saying because I know the area. To the other poster - of course middle class children behave badly, and of course the vast majority of working class kids are good kids, but we're not talking about general bad behaviour here, we're talking worries about knife crime and gang culture.

Highbury Grove does take a lot of middle class kids, though the size and location mean it has its fair share of problems. I don't know where in Islington you are but Stoke Newington has quite an artsy reputation so being a boy into arts and music would not be unusual there, I don't think. Unfortunately Islington is better for girls because there are two good single sex schools for them.

All schools have bullying, private schools as much as state, it's about how the school deals with it. Don't panic at this stage. You could try going to the open evenings in Sept to have a look around, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised (just go on schools' websites because you need to book).

I wouldn't write off your chances in the SMMA test if your DS shows an aptitude for that kind of thing, but I agree that you need a Plan B. It's early though, he's only 8!

I think she’s using middle class as a proxy for more interested parents, social mores which value education and hence more collective aspirations …

Yeh I agree with @shepherdsangeldelight - you do know, @cookiesandsleep that middle class is not the same thing as well behaved? Middle class children also behave badly.

I don't know the area you are in I'm afraid but if you want to move you need to sell your house to make clear the move is permanent

Could anyone recommend state schools in north London that is largely middle class.

You seem to be using "middle class" as a proxy for "well behaved". I hope you realise how offensive this is?

We are considering moving to be closer to the school although not sure how we would do that with owning a property.

You sell your house and buy another one that is nearer.

I'd suggest asking MN to put "North London" in the title as you are more likely to get information from people who know the area.

You can move near SMMA and avoid having to take the entrance exam. Unless you want to change neighbourhood.

Dame Alice Owen but you have to live on the doorstep in order to have a chance to get in via catchment.

Wren Academy in Finchley but it's very strict from what I hear.