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PLS educate me, what's the BUZZ about going to INDIE schools?

61 replies

worriedbub · 10/02/2024 12:03

Hello all

Pls just go be clear ,I'm not asking for difference between state schools and indie schools. This question is really about choosing between TWO INDIE schools

This is really a genuine question as I’m finding myself in the middle of it all as well

Pls what exactly is the real motive of going to the top indie schools, even when having an option of going to two top ones. For example choosing between St. Paul’s girls and JAGS for example , they are both academically up there,

What exactly is the main reason for parents willing to relocate and even change jobs just to be near a top indie school. For example they live near a GDST school which is also a good indie school and they have an offer but then they are really pushing for ALLEYNS/st Pauls girls and are willing to relocate near these schools?

Aside from the culture of the school, isn’t it the same GCSE and A level results they are going to sit with every other secondary school?

Do unis like Oxford and Cambridge choose from top indie schools first before going to other schools?

Is having an indie school on their CV going to help them later in life ?

I’m genuinely baffled as to what the craze is behind going for a school like St Paul’s Girls Rather than Dulwich college/GDST schools for example ?

Sorry if my post isn’t clear . Hope you get the gist😊

OP posts:
matrixxx · 10/02/2024 13:24

I've had DC go through LU, SPGS and G&L. If I had to summarise, I'd say LU is less 'containing' and obviously the co-ed element makes a difference in terms of the general atmosphere. Suits a very confident, resilient child. At SPGS, the parent community is more noticeably 'tiger' - not all of them of course, but enough! G&L feels less pushy, considering GCSE results are almost the same. Everything feels more down-to- earth and low-key somehow. But both girls schools definitely have a calmer vibe than LU which, although very dynamic, is a tougher environment socially, I'd say. That's just my experience though. Also, LU now has its first female head, so this may make a difference going forward. All my kids got the same GCSEs, so no difference in terms of academics or teaching really.

TeenDivided · 10/02/2024 13:17

You get pretty much the same syllabus at a state school too.

So the difference I would expect is the ethos/feel and extra curricular.
Which is the same as we had to choose between for our good comps.

worriedbub · 10/02/2024 13:15

QuiteAJourney · 10/02/2024 13:07

@worriedbub (and adding to @matrixxx 's comments, which have many elements that I agree with).
You refer to GDST schools as if they were all the same when they are quite different on many of the factors outlined in my previous post (and quite a few of them very similar in rankings / academics to Alleyn's / JAGs) - my DD is at WHS, we did not apply to PHS (although we are close) and rejected an offer with significant scholarship from SCHS. The reasons area aligned with what I mentioned above - academic rigour but not hot house, right balance for her of stretch but not bottom of cohort (it would not suit her personality), strong on the extracurricular she favours, convenient location, inclusive ethos, diversity factors, etc. All those are things that matter to us, they may not matter the same for other parents.

@QuiteAJourney thank you

Yes , I know all GDST schools are not the same . I just didn't want to start breaking it down into different schools .

You are right , it really depends on all those factors ( like I said I'm also in the middle of this right now ) but leaning more towards the "lower " indie school as it's closer to us , so just wanted to be sure we are getting it right and not missing out on much of an academic difference

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 10/02/2024 13:13

I am philosophically and politically opposed to PRIVATE schools. But if I were to have gone down that route it would have been for easily accessible sport and other extra curricular activities, and for the cultural capital.

Frostynight · 10/02/2024 13:11

Status, contacts, networking with families with similar aspirations and ethos etc. Confidence knowing that you are good enough to be accepted at the "best" school.

I'm guessing here, as my dcs are/were at state schools, but we have a lot of friends with dc at a real mix of schools, including Westminster, Habs, NLCS, and places like Berko, MTs etc. The Westminster lot, for example, wouldn't even look at MTs or Berko.

QuiteAJourney · 10/02/2024 13:07

@worriedbub (and adding to @matrixxx 's comments, which have many elements that I agree with).
You refer to GDST schools as if they were all the same when they are quite different on many of the factors outlined in my previous post (and quite a few of them very similar in rankings / academics to Alleyn's / JAGs) - my DD is at WHS, we did not apply to PHS (although we are close) and rejected an offer with significant scholarship from SCHS. The reasons area aligned with what I mentioned above - academic rigour but not hot house, right balance for her of stretch but not bottom of cohort (it would not suit her personality), strong on the extracurricular she favours, convenient location, inclusive ethos, diversity factors, etc. All those are things that matter to us, they may not matter the same for other parents.

DelurkingAJ · 10/02/2024 13:06

I went to a very good independent girls school to 16 and then a super selective for sixth form (mixed). The difference was night and day. The first was lovely but tolerated me doing things like playing cards in GCSE Physics because I was going to walk an A *. The sixth form I was about a quarter of the way down the year in terms of ability and had to work to keep up. Results may well have looked very similar but the atmosphere was completely different (and I much much preferred sixth form!).

matrixxx · 10/02/2024 13:02

Also, in terms of Oxbridge, as you asked, a very bright self-motivated child would have more chance if applying from a very good state school. Contextualisation is a huge part of selection these days and the GCSEs will be contextualised against the average performance at the individual's school. So, if the average at SPGS is 11 9s, but a child applies with 10 9s and an 8, they could actually get a negative contextualised GCSE score, believe it or not. If they were applying from a much less selective independent, or a comprehensive, their GCSEs would be contextualised as very strong.

matrixxx · 10/02/2024 12:56

The only difference is a marginal one re-results - ie. a GDST school such as Putney High will achieve about 90% A star / A at GCSE, whereas somewhere like Godolphin and Latymer or St Paul's will see about 97% or 98/99% respectively.

In effect, this is meaningless, because as long as your DD is in the '90%' at somewhere like Putney, or even 80% or less at other schools in the area, who cares. They will still get the same results.

However, in the league tables, a few % difference in results, or even a few decimal points, can mean that a school is positioned in the top 5 every year, or lower down, in the 20s or 30s. So minute differences are over-emphasised and this is why parents are more likely to choose SPGS or G&L, as they are perceived as more selective and higher up the league tables.

Hiwever, the same child would do equally well in any of these schools as the differences are insignificant. There are great and not so great teachers in all schools.

worriedbub · 10/02/2024 12:41

QuiteAJourney · 10/02/2024 12:24

I think that it is impossible to generalise.

Many parents do not choose only on academic results but on many other factors (yes, there are parents driven uniquely or mostly by league tables but I would think that they are not the majority). In lots of cases parents want to ensure a minimum academic standard (what is threshold is personal too) but other factors like distance, school / year size, co-ed vs single sex, range and type of extra-curricular activities, school ethos (including whether religious or not), vibe, socio-economic and demographic mix of students and families, etc. play a major role. Also, depending on the personality of the DC, where your DC will sit within the cohort - some DC like being challenged and feel comfortable in a school that provides lots of stretch; others might get demotivated if they feel that they are not academically comfortable within their cohort. Again, how much these factors matter depends on the individual and the differences between schools - for instance, some people feel quite relaxed about distance as long as the difference is 10 minutes here and there... but not if we are talking about 30 minutes.

We, as a family factored these issues when choosing which schools to apply for (in our vicinity rather than moving) and also which one to choose from when we received all the offers. My DD was very much in the driving seat (she did a weighted average table of factors, scores and how much each factor mattered to her!) and we discussed as a family.

Thanks a lot for your view @QuiteAJourney

So apart from these factors really? What is the academic difference between JAGS/ ALLEYNS and a GDST school for example ?

Surely if they are paying almost the same fees of about £20k , our kids are taught the same curriculum isn't it

I saw someone on here recently debating whether she should forgo a scholarship at a Lower indie school to go to a more elite school with no scholarship?

I think This is what I'm trying to understand, the academic difference..As long as they are both very good indie schools , should it matter 🤔

OP posts:
QuiteAJourney · 10/02/2024 12:24

I think that it is impossible to generalise.

Many parents do not choose only on academic results but on many other factors (yes, there are parents driven uniquely or mostly by league tables but I would think that they are not the majority). In lots of cases parents want to ensure a minimum academic standard (what is threshold is personal too) but other factors like distance, school / year size, co-ed vs single sex, range and type of extra-curricular activities, school ethos (including whether religious or not), vibe, socio-economic and demographic mix of students and families, etc. play a major role. Also, depending on the personality of the DC, where your DC will sit within the cohort - some DC like being challenged and feel comfortable in a school that provides lots of stretch; others might get demotivated if they feel that they are not academically comfortable within their cohort. Again, how much these factors matter depends on the individual and the differences between schools - for instance, some people feel quite relaxed about distance as long as the difference is 10 minutes here and there... but not if we are talking about 30 minutes.

We, as a family factored these issues when choosing which schools to apply for (in our vicinity rather than moving) and also which one to choose from when we received all the offers. My DD was very much in the driving seat (she did a weighted average table of factors, scores and how much each factor mattered to her!) and we discussed as a family.

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