Anyone have a DC studying for a T Level?

And, as I said before, I think allowing kids on courses, T levels, L3 courses with only 4 x grade 4 GCSEs isn't a higher educational requirement!

I agree entirely with you.

BTECs might've needed a tweak, and A LOT of promotion, but I think they provided several levels of achievement (no one knows they came at L1, L2 and 3) and, as my DS demonstrated, despite not being amazing at exams, he was able to get into a well paying career via a L3 BTEC.

I don't really see there was anything wrong with BTECs that a bit of minor tinkering couldn't have fixed. I don't see that they required scrapping and replacing with something that required higher academic ability.

Where are the courses now for the competent but not good at exams? For the ones who can do but aren't so good at putting pen to paper?

ABS is a good idea BUT it'll fall at the first hurdle: insufficient teachers (could be argued we wouldn't need to study maths 16-19 if it was taught well at 4-16).

It sounds if we want to go 'European' while shunning any 16-19 Ed that doesn't get you into uni.

So we'll have had BTec, T levels, then ABS; while A level sails on unimpeded, (with one 'stab' at bolting on a IB element via the ill-fated 'Extended Project').

Your 'criminology' stat is interesting. First I wonder at but am not surprised at the low T level availability- or uptake??; secondly, sorry, a bit off- topic but pertinent to my belief, that we are misleading our young- but Criminology? To then do what? Forensics at uni, when about 6 jobs a year come up in that field?

We have got to stop titting around with our FE.

Should've MADE real apprenticeships a thing; should have been beefed up, promoted, funded.

DH worked for a huge waste disposal company, paying a high apprenticeship levy. But they gave up offering apprenticeships because the 'academic content' providers were 'ave a go chancers, fly by night charlatans.

T levels and ABS won't address the fundamental snobbery we have about anything that isn't 'uni-enabling'.

@Fordian , the long term expectation is that if Rishi's ABS qualification gets taken on by Labour then in the long term T levels will be diluted as maths will be taken along side the T level and this will allow everyone to also dilute the work experience (because this is a sticking point in finding enough placements as T levels expand). Hence a T level will become more like a BTec plus maths.
It's worth remembering that currently more students are studying a BTec in criminology (that is being defunded from 2025) than all T levels combined!

I know this isn't helpful at this stage but I so wish they'd put as much money into what I knew as 'techs' as they have 6th form colleges! BTECs should have been properly funded, promoted and EXPLAINED to the public and HE institutes.

T levels will go the same way, as not-A levels.

At GCSE, DS1 got Ax2; Bx6; Cx2. So rather better than 4 grade 4s.

Y12 (A levels) not successful due to immaturity. A transfer to the Tech to do a L3 BTEC in IT, he scored 160 UCAS points (3xA* at A level was164). The only 2 modules (of 13) he only 'Passed' were the 2 (TWO) examined ones... the rest were assessments and projects.

We'd all readily state 160 UCAS at A level would be harder to attain than the 160 of the BTEC, but I wonder if the T levels with their exams would fall in between?

But, for him, thence onto uni (ex-poly), first class hons in software engineering, with a cruisey first year having already covered the material at BTEC.

Others on his BTEC with lower outcomes became technicians, help desk people etc. But they had options.

My point is what happens with low grade T levels? And getting 4 grade 4 GCSEs should, to my mind, suggest you aren't uni material.

As I said earlier, I suspect they haven't been properly thought through, will be patchily taught and not understood by employers, and be mistrusted by HE.

This will continue until we finally start making companies take on proper apprenticeships and partially wear the burden of their training instead of finding every possible way you can get kids onto useless degree courses, propping up that Ponzi scheme

A T Level has a core and occupation specialism, so you enter both on UCAS. But if you don’t complete both you don’t get the qualification or the points.

When I was looking at the UCAS website, re qualifications and points gained, there are options in the menu for t-level core (yr 1), etc so although you may not get a qualification you do get UCAS points.

@Octavia64
I so agree with that point!
Its all well and fine to push T levels but I am amazed at how very few places actually offer them.
And to be honest the breadth of what is on offer also seems quite poor.
I have a child who is certainly in between a Btech and an A level and I find there is a serious lack of courses in that space.

If you are in London this is probably less of an issue but certainly around me the nearest T level provider is two hours drive away.

(I worked in a school and we ran pshe sessions on options after GCSEs and we were required to mention T levels. The kids then asked where they could do them and that was the answer).

I'd be a bit careful; a lot of money has been poured into them but very few places are offering them and I can see them disappearing with a change of government.

That's a good point.
Under the BTEC system if a college did all the compulsory units in year 1 someone could leave after year 1 with a Certificate / Subsidiary Diploma or something.

Also there’s no partial qualification for a T Level - if she does one year and doesn’t like it, she’ll leave with nothing to show for her year. There’s no option to convert to AS as there would be on an A Level programme.

Quite a few colleges will accept BTEC students who need to retake maths or English if they've shown aptitude in the BTEC subject. I think, with work placements, it's much harder to retake GCSEs alongside BTEC.

Those entry requirements are quite low for a T-level, so I would be asking serious questions about outcomes and how many students actually manage to complete the course.

I am not convinced T-levels are brilliant for anyone who struggles with assessments. There are still quite high stakes and long assessments as part of the course, which are more highly weighted than the assessments in BTEC.

Among other subjects I teach a level 3 BTEC and the T-level is not a like for like replacement. We aren't going to run T-levels as a school for a few reasons- 1) rurally, work placements will be almost impossible 2) Currently, local unis don't seem keen on them at all and 3) The curriculum is a lot narrower than the BTEC we run, and more limiting in terms of career options.

Currently, as a replacement, we're looking at AAQs- these are one A-level equivalents which will be similar in format to BTEC Certificates and Cambridge Technicals. Students will be able to sit 2 of these alongside an A-level, so for example might do Human Biology, Health and Social care + Psychology A-level- for example. From what we currently know, we think this route would suit students like your DD more in our area (sciences). It also removes the really difficult logistical challenges of trying to find suitable work placements our students can actually get to.

Our largest local FE college has had some major issues with running some T-levels, and our feeling is that if they can't manage it, then we definitely can't.

If you decide to go down a T-level route, I would ask (on open days etc):

• How many students start the course, and how many successfully complete it?
• What outcomes are you getting from students with DD's grade profile?
• What progression routes are these students taking after college?

If it were my child, I wouldn't want them to be in the first cohort to do T-levels at a particular institution.

Hi, my DS is in his first year of doing a level 3 digital t level. Absolutely loves it😍

He had offers for both A levels & T level but couldn't make a decision between the two. He liked the option of either opting for an apprenticeship or continuing on to uni so felt T level was the better option.

He attends a city centre college with a good reputation for it's T level courses. Plus as we live near the city he has more options for the work placement element, he has successfully secured a place at a major UK bank who are a huge advocate for recruiting t level students on their apprenticeship schemes.The college assists with finding work placements but DS had to submit his CV and attend an informal interview.

Just like A levels, there is a lot of self study once assignments are set so need to be motivated.

There's regular end of topic testing, and end of year final exams, in year 1&2. The course is also helping them to develop their soft skills ready for the workplace. The tutors are all very supportive, when not in class they are available on Teams and have a monthly 1-1 to see how things are going.

There are level 2 T levels which are one year courses for students who don't acquire grade 5. They are a foundation year which leads onto the level 3 course.

I was rather hesitant at first as read a lot of negative articles about T levels but think most were teething issues that coincided with the pandemic. Research the college and courses, pop in and chat to the tutors about previous students, work placements etc

So far, it's been a positive experience and hopefully continues.😀

Things you need to bear in mind:

• not every uni accepts them for every course, so you will be blocking some options off. But if she’s checked a few of the likely options and it’s fine this is less of a concern.
• some T Levels have been poorly taught, so I would want to talk to current students, ask about drop out rates, completion rates, typical scores
• they are not really good for SEND students, so if that’s a consideration it’s a big issue
• Does the college have a robust plan for work placements? Do students have to find them themselves? What happens if the placements don’t work out? What is the process for issues with work placements? How far away are the placements and is there any financial support for travel? If not would it be affordable?

The 4 over grade 4 is what the Level 3 BTECs tended to need. I have seen some T-Levels advertised as needing 5s.

Ah London, that will be easy travel wise. DD is doing work experience weekly at a kennels and they tend to be in the middle of nowhere, not anywhere near bus routes.

DD is not doing T-Level (too high level for her) but her college has mainly switched over to them in place of BTECs.

A couple of things to consider:
. entry requirements seem to be higher than for the older Level 3 BTECs
. how will the young person travel to work experience

It was a bit confusing at first, as some courses said they did not know what T levels where when we went to look when he started his first year on the course, but I think now they are being recognised more.

We were looking at the old poly unis as the courses suited what he wants anyway. I don’t think you’d get into a RG type Uni with one, though maybe this will change as t levels get more well known