SW London grammar and private year 7 entry 2024 - Continued

Update from KGS:

As well as a growing Sixth Form, buoyed by the positive experience and outcomes at the top end of the school, we have been under some pressure to expand – just a little – at the lower end of the school. Over the last few years, we have had to make fewer and fewer 11+ offers to keep our numbers at a maximum of 125, five forms of entry. This year, we maintained the number of offers and this resulted in a record number of acceptances. We do not believe in having larger class sizes (or reneging on our offers), something we feel would diminish the experience of being at KGS.

Instead, we have taken the decision to create six forms of entry for 2024-25. The additional space offered by 100 London Road, as well as other future developments, offer us the opportunity to make better use of our facilities for the benefit of all students.

In light with the VAT on fees, private schools might perfer over offering to secure a certain number of enrollments for economic viability, even if it may potentially lead to more classes. This strategy could mitigate the risks associated with a long waiting list, such as not securing enough students or failing to attract high-quality applicants. It is the pragmatic prospective for schools to maintain operational efficiency and financial stability.

Same for us minimiffy. I realise I don’t even know what the normal number of classes is 😳 I know it’s usually 150ish in a year so guess 6 classes and this year will be more like 175 and 7 forms? So perhaps less impact than, say, a 4 form school going to 5 forms. And slightly smaller classes than current year 7, they said, which is a plus.

See you in Sep… or maybe in May at the parents’ event 👋

Yes I agree they are a big and roomy enough school to cope. Explains the lack of waitlist movement too!

Yes I agree they are a big and roomy enough school to cope. Explains the lack of waitlist movement too!

@minimiffy Given the numbers at Alleyn's and their setting, I would not be concerned if I were you.

@ALongProcess It is Alleyn’s - so seems like they have done it in the past and hopefully able to deal with increase well.

Thanks @QuiteAJourney - good things to think about and I don’t think it changes anything materially, I was just a bit surprised.

DH also pointed out if they had been tighter on the offers we wouldn’t know if DD would have made the cutoff!

@minimiffy it happens sometimes - Surbiton High two years ago, I think (I seem to recall that, after acceptance day, they added two extra forms). I appreciate that it might come as a surprise but not unheard of.

Other schools have an extra form as part of their plans plan - e.g. WHS is putting an extra form next year as they have the space to have a bigger entry every so often and do it as long as it does not compromise the academics. They were very open with those applying and with offers.

In other cases the school is more popular than anticipated so either they put on an extra form or they go down the route of exploding offers (that parents hate and can really impact the school's reputation going forward). I suppose that the impact depends on what was the starting point. An increase in one form in a small school (let's say 2 forms' entry) will be felt much more than in a larger school. It depends on availability of space (indoors / outdoors - how crowded or not the facilities are) and also whether there are some specific services (e.g. buses, specific clubs, teams) which might be more difficult to get into. It also depends on what is important for you as a parent - was size a big factor when deciding on the school and, if so, has that significantly changed?

Do you mind sharing which school, @minimiffy ?

Thanks all, I think my initial instinct was it’s a bit cheeky to tell us now after we’ve paid the deposit but they wouldn’t know until all deposits were paid of course!
Then I am worried about teaching/facilities but they have promised measures for this.

From my reading of mumsnet posts this year it seems like there has been little WL movement and my theory is all schools over offered more than usual because they thought proposed VAT increase would put people off, but actually it had little effect so they had more acceptances than expected. So much less going to WL and now this extra form!

@minimiffy @Digimoor ,agree that Alleyns and Emanuel have done this previously and an extra form sometimes in WHS and FHSS.

@minimiffy I think both Alleyns and Emanuel have done this previously

Happy that the school is considered by families to be so good that it miscalculated massively its acceptance rate? 😊

Just got an email from our chosen school saying that they are having to put on an extra class due to over acceptance. Not sure how to feel about this!

The very top schools will have 800+ applicants for 60 places. There will be little to separate from in the exams scores of many of those who are shortlisted for interview, or even after the interview. At that stage, the school can use the fact that a pupil is coming from a state school primary as a tie-breaker. Again, this only applies to top schools where there are more academically top-performing pupils than there are places.

I don't think any school 'aim' for a specific quota of state school or prep school kids. the % we are all quoting are just the historic averages? They aren't genuinely going to turn down a better state school candidate just because they need to fulfil a prep school quota......

It might help the discussion to distinguish between top private secondaries in London or other big cities (ie. about 30 or so schools), which receive so many applications, and the rest of the private sector. The top 20-30 private secondaries are targeted by people across the wealth spectrum, from families seeking a bursary to super-wealthy families that spare no expenses on tutoring. This small number of private schools, which are discussed on Mumsnet all the time, can afford to be more picky. And so they seek to have a diverse mix across many criteria (wealth, ethnicity, etc). Some of these top schools, which were mentioned already, openly aim for a certain percentage (30%-50%) of state school pupils as a reliable proxy to have a little bit more diversity. This is not of course the diversity of a standard state comprehensive but, comparatively speaking, a bit more diversity than that found on average in a prep school in Kensington or Hampstead. For example, these top 30 schools will attract low middle class families who make sacrifices to send their DC to private, only for secondary. But these families are unlikely to make this sacrifice for schools that are not at the very top academically. The situation will be very different in middle-to low ranking private secondaries, where the pull of applicants will be mainly affluent families that go private all the way through.

Alleyn's aim for a third from the junior school, a third from private prep schools and a third from state schools. Having had children in different school years, I would say that seems to be about what it is in reality.

Not all and if you had read my other posts you would have seen I had said coming from a state primary doesn’t mean more socially and economically diverse…

I questions the % as I wondered if so many private secondary schools take half state half private what then is the point of private primaries etc. surely they would find themselves going out of business. It seems from what other posters have said 50% coming from state is an over exaggeration.

Are you implying that all state school kids are non fee paying? Most pay the fees for secondary but just didn’t go private for primary . A very small percentage will be part bursary or full bursary but not many. State school families don’t automatically = poor.

State schools could be the faith primary schools, which has a selection process.
Also state schools with private partnerships such as The Fulham Bilingual, a unique partnership between Holy Cross Catholic Primary, a state English school and L'Ecole Marie D'Orliac, a French private school.

Emanuel targets 50% state, very open at the open day. They don’t necessarily get that in terms of children going but that is the aim.

Somewhere like LU, about 40 come up automatically from the prep school. Then it's roughly 50% from state schools, some of which will be excellent, some not so much (postcode lottery) and the other half from private schools. Some private schools prep very heavily for 11 plus - eg. Faulkner House or Bute. Other private primary schools are non-selective and don't do half this level of 11 plus prep. Some private prep schools are run by barking mad people and there is no advantage of being at these schools.

The reality is, in Sept, primary school will be over and done with and they will all be 'private school kids' once they enrol at LU. When they apply for uni, this is how their grades will be contextualised. Primary school is neither here nor there at this stage.

The exception would be those on full bursaries / part bursaries who, for the purposes of UCAS, may meet other contextualising criteria due to their address, family income, etc.

Fox primary school has half of its students going to the state Holland Park school, and maybe a third going to private schools. This contrasts with the private prep school close by that sends 95% of its kids to private schools every year. Some parents in Fox primary who choose secondary schools are certainly wealthy, but I agree that on average the range will be different from the prep school nearby where most of the parents never think of state schools as an option from the start

I think apart from bursary students the level of wealth from state primary to private primary is not that great, in these affluent parts of London. Sadly, these state school offers are not going to kids at underperforming schools. Those are the kids that should be given special consideration.