Below average secondary school - what lengths would you go to in order to do better for your kids?

the Fact you are even concerned about this shows your kids will do ok from their upbringing / family situation alone. School is such a small part. The local one will improve. Don’t burden yourselves with a long school run it will ruin your life as a Family, most important the kids stay with their friends and are happy, and can get themselves to school.

I’d wait and see how things go with the school under the new regime. Give it a few months. My main concern would be the bullying. Schools don’t get a reputation for bullying unless the school is failing to tackle it effectively. If they can’t manage to stop bullying, how is student behaviour generally? What’s the learning environment like in the classroom? It doesn’t matter if a child is bright and motivated if they’re afraid of going to school or if the teacher spends half the lesson dealing with behavioural issues.

I wouldn’t pick a school just because it’s local. That’s really failing your DC.

In my experience, it's the strongest teachers who leave a school first, because they find it easiest to find new jobs.

The problem is, in the current context, many of those 37 teachers won't be replaced at all, let alone with stronger candidates. At the moment "RI ofsted, been taken over by a new MAT, teachers leaving" is a red flag to most experienced teachers. The best teachers, especially in shortage subjects, can pick and choose the jobs they want at the moment.

You can't turn around a school with no staff.

37 teachers is a lot to leave. I notice there are people on the thread telling you this could be a positive, but I'll tell you my own experience with a school in a similar situation (and a similar context except no commutable grammar schools). Bear in mind this was a few years ago now, and the teacher shortage if anything is more acute than it was then.

So when my previous school was taken over by an academy trust, although the terms of our employment were exactly the same, there were some red flags from the trust CEO, and they bought in policies some teachers weren't keen on. Over the course of the first year of being in the academy, quite a lot of staff left. Despite what some PP were saying, these were (in general) not weak teachers being pushed out, but strong teachers with lots of options to find employment elsewhere. We lost some excellent middle leaders.

The school (which was also rural and not the easiest to commute to) struggled to replace all these roles, so we went in short staffed at the start of the year, with unfilled posts in e.g. Head of Department roles. Staff had to teach out of their specialisms, and we were asked to do a lot of cover to make up for unfilled posts. Teachers were also asked to take on full planning/marking for "shared classes" where there was no other teacher.

Despite being massively short staffed, the trust was really arrogant and treated some people on long term supply very poorly. Being on long term supply, they could just walk out and not return, which made the situation worse. Christmas of that year we had a lot of staff leave, again, including some amazing, dynamic young teachers who could have been real assets to the school.

Around this time, I think parents started to realise something was badly wrong, and some parents started looking at moving their children to other local(ish) schools. At least one of these schools became full/oversubscribed, which it never had been previously.

Despite this, the MAT were obviously on a mission to force out the old leadership team. Some of them were great, some of them were less so, some of them were our only teachers of a particular subject, but that wasn't seen as a concern. Summer term of that year was a mess (for lots of reasons), at that point I decided I needed to get out, and luckily was able to find a new job. Again, a lot of people left at the end of that summer.

As far as I know, the only people forced out were the those former members of SLT. Everyone else who left, left by choice- they weren't "jumping before being pushed" type situations, and I would say those who started leaving first were good teachers who had lots of options and found it easy to get another job. A lot of the people who left only had to go to one interview to find a job!

Obviously, I don't work at that school any more, but their most recent OFSTED makes specific mention of their staffing issues, and I've heard from people who are still there that things really aren't great. The other school in the town, and the school in the next town are now oversubscribed, and I know parents who are desperate to get their children in year transfers.

The school is now 4 years on from the new MAT taking over, and it's maybe starting to show some signs of recovery, but I've also seen lots of job adverts from them since September, so make of that what you will.

There are a lot of people trying to persuade themselves that the education system isn't in crisis, and these schools will sort themselves out and be "fine" but I would strongly urge you to at least look at the other commutable schools. Yes, local friends are great, but students who commute to another town for school still make friends, and you can make local friends through hobbies etc as well! You may have to be prepared to give a lot of lifts to facilitate social life BUT I also think you will find you are not the only one doing this, and the danger is that you give your local school "a try" in Y7, and realise there are major issues, and then can't get in anywhere else.

A school that's lost 37 teachers in a year isn't likely to recover fully from that in 2-3 years, and often it's Y7 and 8 who miss out on getting permanent/specialist teaching in these scenarios.

Just to point out that in the specific circumstances you describe @Curlewwoohoo this isn't de facto a negative. It might be that the weaker teachers are being scared off, or are choosing to jump before they are pushed. Don't underestimate the potential impact of a strong HT and SLT coming in, if they are given the authority to do so, they can turn a school around pretty fast. This is what happened at the not very good Secondary Modern my DD2 attended.

I would go and look around the school and make your own mind up. In my experience views of local parents can be quite misleading- people have long memories and schools change quickly, especially if there have been changes in leadership. There is bullying in every school, what’s important is how it’s dealt with.

I’m not a fan of selective education and am a state secondary teacher myself. Both my DC go to the local school, it received ‘requires improvement’ when DC1 was in Y7 🙈 She is now in Y11 and is on track to get her targets of 7s and 8s for GCSE. It’s not perfect, there has been a massive overhaul of the senior leadership and loads of teachers left. But they have local friends, and they walk 5 mins to school, and they have had a rounded education with friends from all walks of life- as opposed to friends’ DC who leave the house stupidly early to get 2 trains to the grammar.

I also became a parent governor- I think if you have the time and inclination then it’s a great way to be a supporter of the school and have an impact.

My child goes to a "good" school. Lots of box ticking, nice facilities, oversubscribed etc. The only thing they kept quiet about was that there would be a split timetable. This means that for most subjects there are 2 teachers that alternate every other week. It's confusing and learning is disjointed, a nightmare if a lesson is missed or there is a substitute. This will continue until my child starts GCSEs where she will have one teacher per subject as she will then be a "priority". Maybe this is a common thing nowadays but I'd never heard of it before. My child is just about having the basics covered, no chance to progress further and I have to watch like a hawk so that things are not missed, no other options in this area. So If I was you I would investigate all the schools, good and bad as things can change either way and some things are not what they appear to be.

I teach at an RI school - was good until last year. Highly able children continue to do well. Well-motivated middle-ability children do well, especially if they have involved parents. Children with SEND are very well-catered for in our school. We aren't that good at making up the difference for those children who are 'middling', for want of a better word, and whose parents aren't that bothered.

school has a poor reputation with local parents - current parents or historically/ in the junior school playground?

I would obvs take current parents seriously, but wouldn’t worry so much about the other two.

Ofsted requires improvement, now being taken over by a big academy

As per pp, this may be a very good thing. I’m a teacher and in all honesty, as long as I liked what I saw at open day, this could be a big plus. Which academy group is it? You can look at the academy group performance on the gov.uk website. Def take a look at that. Also some general research into the academy group in the news, look at the performance of their other schools nearby.

lots of teachers leaving

This is happening everywhere. A RI ofsted and academisation will be a factor too.

fairly big school

There are advantages to large schools; resources, SEN and specialist provision, wider range of subjects available. The key things are how the school manages the community and pastoral. Is it much larger is it than average? We have a very successful large school near us that has s great house system. If there is new leadership, they won’t have a perfect structure in place yet, but it’d be worth knowing what their plans are. And looking at how other large schools in the MAT are organised.

with some bullying reported.

All schools have bullying. The key thing is how bullying is dealt with. Unfortunately, you only find that out when it happens to your child. My dd goes to a currently under-performing, historically unpopular school and their response up recent bullying had been incredible.

Move schools/house. It isn't just as simple as state + extras, this only works if the peer group consists of DC who are motivated to learn and engaged, supportive parents. If peers aren't achieving/learning then all the extra goes to waste.
A good education is the priority for us so I would do anything to ensure my DC had the best education I could afford, whether that means tutoring for grammar/private school/moving house to catchment for best state schools.

If 37 teachers left in one year that's half the staff of a 1000 kid school. Commute or move house I think! Does your child have a good shot at grammar? If they are greater depth in at least one subject in yr4 is worth a gamble but 37 is a lot. High single figures is a lot!

It's that 11 miles in a dedicated school bus? Or 11 miles on public transport?
Our catchment school was 6 miles. So about half a dozen busses went daily from our end of town to school in the next town. It was a pain for after school clubs tho - I had to collect, which meant DS waiting for me. We have moved walking distance now DS2 is also at secondary.

How much would it cost to move to walking distance to one of the other schools? I wouldn't rule out a 750 school - it actually sounds quite good from what you've said.

I thought we could mitigate a poor secondary with extra curriculars and support at home, but I underestimated the influence of peers. We are moving before youngest dd gets into secondary and applying for the nearby single sex grammar. I won't make that mistake again.

I'd probably go for decent tutors and extra curricular activities to top up the school provision.

Just go for whatever is the best imparting in knowledge, usually that is the best grammar or private available to you. Either take the foot of the pedestal and let education cruise, if you want to do something about it, then better take full control and go the full throttle.

It can depend on their peers. If you're mocked or looked down on for working hard, then that's going to demotivate you.
If you're in a school where it's cool to be clever, then that will push you.
We have both experiences in our extended family and in the first scenario, dn changed schools.

Even in a good state school, it's worth considering tutors and extra support. There are lots of free websites and YouTube resources to help.

How long are the commutes? I would definitely at least visit them.

I wouldn't be put off by no sixth form in a small school- there are lots of different options at that stage, and you can have another look around then.

Distance to friends is tricky, but if you are willing to give some lifts, and help DC keep up with local hobbies etc, then there are options.

The thing that concerns me from your post is that lots of teachers are leaving your local school. My experience as a teacher is that in that scenario things will get worse before they get better (if they get better at all).

I would visit all possible schools and think about what is genuinely the best fit for your DC.

The idea that these schools get resources thrown at them is a myth these days- especially as the school is RI, not in special measures. Every school is stretched financially.

There isn't only one direction of travel- this school sounds like it could definitely have the capacity to get worse, particularly if a lot of staff are leaving.

We had similar with the 'local' option (40 mins commute) and so targeted music places in Y6 and DD has done a 90 minute commute each way for an outstanding secondary that specialises in music.

If we hadn't had that option then we would have looked at independent, other schools around an hour commute that were okay and if no choice then taken that school and done a huge amount of tutoring outside school.

My eldest has gone to a ' good ' secondary school, its not great tbh. Not 1 piece of homework marked so no results back. No results from any tests.

I'd go local. Massive benefit for teens. Just be all over their homework & marks & ensure they know you are not letting up pushing them to do their best. Sounds like it'll be improving v soon