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Should I ask the school to pick up the pace? What should I hope for?

33 replies

MrPickles73 · 27/11/2023 15:24

DC1 attends a non selective independent school. GCSE and A level results are ok but nothing amazing. Our local comprehensives are very poor (15% gain 5GCSEs including maths and english). There are no available grammar schools.

DC1 just started at this non selective independent school in Year 9 post their prep school, which they enjoyed and found academically challenging.

The problem is they are finding Year 9 of the non selective school not academically challenging at all. The complaint is the lessons are too slow as the teacher takes a long time explaining and re-explaining to those who struggle. Even the lessons which are streamed (maths and languages) are slow for DC1. DC1 is I would say top 10% but not a genius. There are other smart kids but they are lazy whilst DC1 is more motivated.

I have been to ask the school and they have told me we need to be patient and the pace will pick up.. DC1s feedback from the teachers is excellent and they are frequently top of the class. But they are frustrated and hence unhappy.

We have looked at other local independent schools but not found anything any better. Full time boarding is not an option due to the cost, travel time, sports commitments etc.

What else can I do? I am wracking my brains.. do I go back to the school? What can I reasonably expect them to do? My feeling is they haven't really tried anything yet other than the existing streaming... DH suggests to continue where we are but I basically tutor DC1 in my spare time but I already work full-time and I wonder what we are getting for our school fees if I am tutoring them myself.

What should my expectations be? What can I hope for? Are our expectations unreasonable? Where are the smart motivated kids (we live in the sticks)?

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CousinGreg55 · 03/12/2023 08:36

I wouldn't dismiss the state school.
Even if the overall results are low if it is a large school there will still be plenty of academic students in the top sets.

DisquietintheRanks · 03/12/2023 08:20

You to look to extend and enrich out of school, though that won't stop the boredom within it.

What I would do is move to an area with better state schools - not grammar necessarily, just better. My ds' are like your dd - bright but not geniuses. There was a fair bit of wheel spinning at primary but they're really in their element at secondary and they're just at a good comp (no grammars round here).

AGoingConcern · 02/12/2023 04:16

I know you said you've been in once to ask for extension or enrichment work and didn't see results. Has your DC asked their subject teachers directly for additional things to do in class & at home? How did that go?

sashh · 30/11/2023 07:25

OP

Don't dismiss the state school as 'poor' just on their results, you need to look at their intake.

I taught a Polish girl in college, she had arrived in the UK two years previously with no English and two years later had 9 GCSE passes but didn't get her English GCSE (got a D grade - old system) so by your standard (and the government) she was a failure.

Year 9 can be an odd year, lots of not motivated children and some treading water until the start of GCSEs.

The teacher should be differentiating, and doing that for one or two bright academic students is easier than for children who do need more explanation / time - this is why some teachers get an academic student to explain the task to a less academic student.

As a PP said it can be extra questions, or even skipping some questions. Handouts can have three sets of questions and the student selects which set they can answer confidently.

Keep an eye on things, after Christmas there may be a change of sets or the pace may pick up as the teacher has got a feel for the class.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 30/11/2023 06:35

Serious question, why are you paying for this? It doesn't make sense to me to pay for education but then have to spend so much out of school time supplementing it?

Have you looked at all the local options including state? There may well be somewhere which would challenge her more even if their results aren't necessarily any better.

lanthanum · 28/11/2023 18:15

With some teachers you can sense that they have a box on their planning for "how will I keep picklesjunior challenged?" It's usually not a whole extra resource - just a "what if?" or "can you think of other examples?"

Phineyj · 28/11/2023 16:27

What @lanthanum should be absolutely standard practice everywhere!

lanthanum · 28/11/2023 16:12

A non-selective indie might make more effort if you mention that if they continue to be bored then you'll look at other options for next year.

It doesn't need to be GCSE work or a lot of extra stuff - just a recognition that they might need an extra question to explore. That might be when they have finished the regular work; even better if the teacher realises when they could actually skip the easier questions in the regular work. In maths, the UKMT challenges and/or mentoring scheme. In languages, a book to read. In humanities, an extra question which requires more thought or explanation. DD's (state comp) geography teachers were very good at noticing that she had finished and asking her an extra question that gave a her a bit more of a challenge.

TinklingToadstools · 28/11/2023 15:06

My son became so bored and frustrated in secondary school he started suffering with anxiety. It became a huge problem.
He is now HE, self taught and it's made a massive difference. His love of learning has returned, he sailed through his GCSES, now studying A levels completely independently, and successfully passed the ones he took in summer. Final ones next year. Been offered a place at uni.
Had he stayed in school he would have barely scrapped through, if at all.
Lack of pace and challenge can present enormous issues with some students.

Daisies12 · 28/11/2023 14:56

cansu · 27/11/2023 19:27

Tbh I would direct her to self study sites and challenging fiction. I would also maybe play it down. If you don't have selective schools on your doorstep then she needs to just get on with it. She is not on 1.1. She is in a class with a spectrum of abilities. I personally would just remind her of this.

This. Honestly, don’t make such a big thing of it. Let her be bored, it’s an important life skill. Exams and results don’t matter once you get to the next stage, she needs to be enjoying teen and school life

MrPickles73 · 28/11/2023 14:53

IfAIwasfedMN I have to say our experience is similar. It seems they put her in random sets when she arrived (as they claimed they had nothing to go on despite having had entrance exams and a report from the previous school including test scores). Other kids were also in random sets - in some cases too fast and in ours too slow. I have been in to ask for more stretch and there has been no apparent change.
We have looked at alternative schools but so far nothing looks worth moving for so I am thinking I may need to go back to them and ask again..

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MrPickles73 · 28/11/2023 12:58

PTSDBarbiegirl we have a report from the school for this term showing her results and average in the class and she knows when she got the top mark (and some teachers comment on - wow well done you got the top mark). So no mystery there.
She has tried musical instruments and is not that fussed. She is keen on sports and a county player and plays about 4 sports so has more hobbies and teams than she can shake a stick at but other than sleeping during lessons I can't see how this will help her?

QueenMabby and others some differentiation is what I am hoping for. We have asked once but no noticeable change so I will go in and ask again.

TBH I don't think its fair on any child to sit around for days, weeks, bored because the lesson is too fast / slow. Its not ok to engage children just because they are quicker than others. Surely all children are equal and all deserve an education?

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IfAIwasfedMN · 28/11/2023 12:19

Having similar in Y8 non selective Indie. Met with Head of Academics who lazily lay back in his chair until he heard he was getting top scores in his subject, then suddenly declared "Oh so she is academic!". He can't seem to grasp that ds is dyslexic and also high ability though, so when I said "an issue is that all of your homework is on computer, so if he miss-spells something it marks it incorrect, which can be frustrating and break confidence when they do know the subject matter" he said as a response "this makes sure children check their work" Hmm. It's been incredibly frustrating. Left the meeting with him saying he has emailed all teachers for "stretch" - 3 weeks ago and ds has had absolutely nothing extra in any lessons. He is already doing the maths extra and finishing early in every lesson. Ds is worried he is falling behind peers because they've found themselves going over everything they did in (state) primary.

We have decided to leave and are looking to schools that get slightly higher GCSE grades. There are several non-selectives that are more academic, so we will vote with our feet.

Phineyj · 28/11/2023 12:17

Apart from the OP has said herself she's very busy with full time work (and paying fees for this lacklustre educational experience!)

I was very bored at school myself a lot of the time especially in what is now known as KS1 and KS3. It's not great. I'd have loved to be allowed to take an extension book in.

It's not a particularly comfortable situation as a teacher to have a child or children in the class who grasp concepts much faster than others, but letting them be routinely bored isn't the answer.

PTSDBarbiegirl · 28/11/2023 11:59

Phineyj · 27/11/2023 18:07

Ask if they'd allow her to start some GCSE work in the subjects she plans to continue with? She could take a CGP book in. Perhaps this will shame them into a bit of differentiation...

Nothing to stop parents doing this at home. It's likely to way too much pressure for OP's child and for what reason?

OP says, "DC1s feedback from the teachers is excellent and they are frequently top of the class." this makes me think of the parent who frequently calls the school requesting to know where their child is on the 'top of the class' list. No teacher I know would ever use this language anyway.

OP please spend time nurturing your DC's interests and passions, share in that and as a, pp poster said work to guide your child toward the area of their interest and skill. There is no point having A+ in Maths when you want to be a concert pianist, an artist or something different. Sounds like OP could take the pressure off a little and maybe build the wider parts of life interests.

Phineyj · 28/11/2023 11:43

My experience as an independent school teacher was that the more able students didn't always want to be stretched or challenged! It does depend on the culture of the school.

This does occur in state schools with sixth form who are bright but lazy too. However, some of my GCSE students hanker for harder stuff to do. As they don't want to stick out socially, I use a lot of worksheets that incorporate extra challenge tasks.

WarningOfGails · 28/11/2023 10:00

Honestly this sounds a bit crap of your school! My DD is at a state school which sounds similar to your local state option, just for reference - 18% achieved the Ebacc at Grade 5 or above, which I think is the measure you’re referring to in your OP - & once they were streamed for all subjects in Y9 she’s been flying academically as the top sets are made up of intelligent driven kids who are curious to learn.

minisnowballs · 28/11/2023 08:41

It makes me a bit depressed to see so many people suggesting that a child should not be taught to their ability - especially in a school you're paying for!

It was pretty much the minimum I expected in a comprehensive.

Ask for extension and challenge work to be provided, surely, as @QueenMabby says. DD and others had a special book to work through in maths when finished with class work.

Though to be fair, my dd has moved from a state comp to a not selective indie in year 10 (certainly not for the academics) and finds them less willing to stretch and differentiate than the state school was. Fortunately she's got so much else to take in and do - particularly in music - that I'm not really worried that she's not getting too much challenge right now and their results are fine.

They also seem a bit baffled that she reads books - but that's another story.

QueenMabby · 28/11/2023 08:28

I think it's really unfair to expect a bright child to stretch themselves in their own time whilst being bored in lessons. Why can't school provide that stretch and challenge for her?

My dd is similar (although her school is selective) and she often found work boring and repetitive. Fortunately school was onto her! All lessons have class work and extension work anyway and then they added dd-specific extension work on top. It looked different in every lesson. Maths for example she had an extension textbook and once she'd finished the class extension work she'd work from the relevant section of her extension textbook. For languages it was language nut work or whatever website they used.

You should expect this from your school and I'd be going in to have a general discussion with whichever assistant head is in charge of academics.

My dd is now in year 10 and is finding things a bit better but she does still have her specific extra extension work in most subjects. This work doesn't move her ahead of her peers in terms of the curriculum but gives her greater depth (and something to do whilst the others do the classwork or go over something again!).

MrPickles73 · 28/11/2023 08:04

Thanks LIZS I'll take a look. I have done a comparison in the past of CE and national curriculum and they seemed very similar only in languages Level 2 goes well beyond NC.

ampletime I agree with this to some extent but being bored / frustrated for 6 hours a day is also not fostering a love of learning or any enthusiasm to a) go to school or b) strive to continue in education. So I'm not sure boredom is a goal.

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ampletime · 27/11/2023 23:57

The constant need to have children stimulated and pushed is unhealthy. So they are bored, so what, many parts of life are exactly that, part of growing up is learning and accepting boredom.

Snow plough parenting today means depressed adults of the future.

LIZS · 27/11/2023 21:58

CE is a very different curriculum to that which those continuing from year 8 will have experienced. In some ways it may be more advanced but also narrow and usually taught to the test. Encouraging independent study skills and covering some of the topics dc will have missed out (usually the rough curriculum for each year by subject is outlined on the website) would be a good use of time.

cansu · 27/11/2023 19:27

Tbh I would direct her to self study sites and challenging fiction. I would also maybe play it down. If you don't have selective schools on your doorstep then she needs to just get on with it. She is not on 1.1. She is in a class with a spectrum of abilities. I personally would just remind her of this.

Octavia64 · 27/11/2023 19:14

She could definitely take her own books in with her.

For languages she could have a book she is reading - French suggestions here but plenty of other suggestions for German etc.

www.frenchtoday.com/blog/how-to-learn-french/easy-books-for-french-learners/

Maths - I'd suggest looking at intermediate maths challenge papers. You can buy books of them here

ukmt.org.uk/intermediate-challenges

To clarify - I'm not suggesting you do these with her, rather that if she has finished the work she asks the teacher can I read my French book /can I do this maths challenge past paper.

MrPickles73 · 27/11/2023 18:48

Octavia64 yes I think we are in a similar spot - not particularly adept at languages but probably less than a year off GCSE french standard.

She has lots of hobbies / interests so plenty happening there.

Mystero I think you could be right - perhaps take the oxygen out of the situation ;-) . I have tried not talking about it too much.. TBH I'm reluctant to spend the evenings doing additional stuff to school work as then its a really long day for both of us. I rather they up the differentiation at school.

Phineyj good plan with the CGP books :-)

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