Late applications and grammar school waiting lists

He passed the 11 plus, we applied on time, they then gave him that really bad school, we accepted it but he’s in year 10 now and they still haven’t transferred him to another school.

Have you actually applied to move him?

with all that i’m wondering why on earth you didn’t apply for your daughter on time.

They won't look for sibling links at random schools. Curious as to how your ds did not qualify for a grammar place, or you appeal, if situation at the time was same.

Agree, she will have eventually got a place by waiting list or appeal. Not because they refused a place (did they list more than the one choice?) and pestered. Tbh you seem very relaxed considering your error may well mean your dd is not awarded a place at a school of your preference on March 1st , let alone at a grammar, and have to wait it out.

@SannaMom21 they would have got a place because either they won an appeal, or their daughter got to the top of the waiting list.

They will not have got a place just because they bugged the LA, the school or threatened to home school. That would be illegal, and anyone else above her on the waiting list could then have appealed and would have to be given a place.

Accept what you are offered and make sure you are on waiting lists, and you can appeal. Otherwise you risk having no school.

(I chair appeals panels and every year there are people who think they can get a place just by refusing the one they are offered. They cannot.)

Just as an aside though @SannaMom21, please accept the school you are offered on 1st March, even if it isn’t one on your preference list. This won’t affect your chances of getting into a grammar from the waiting list and will mean that you have a backup school for your DD in case she doesn’t get a grammar place (though I think it is very likely that she will).

Just as an aside though @SannaMom21, please accept the school you are offered on 1st March, even if it isn’t one on your preference list. This won’t affect your chances of getting into a grammar from the waiting list and will mean that you have a backup school for your DD in case she doesn’t get a grammar place (though I think it is very likely that she will).

@MarchingFrogs Yes, this year the Birmingham, Warwickshire, Walsall, Wolverhampton and Shropshire grammars are all using the same exam. It has gradually moved this way- when I did my 11+ over 20 years ago you effectively had 3 ‘chances’ to get into a grammar from where I lived in North Birmingham, as the King Edwards, Sutton Coldfield and Walsall grammars were all using different exams. Around 10 (?) years ago the Sutton Coldfield and KE grammars began the consortium and using the same exam, then I think for around 5 years or so Warwickshire has also been using the same exam, and the other LAs only this year (time frames all approximate!).

You're right, thank you - it's not a school run by the Foundation, though one sharing the same exam (although the arrangements changed a bit this year with the new West Midland consortium, havent they, in that there is now a much larger group all using the one exam?).

Re Sutton Coldfield's allocation report, I also read it as 'all qualified PP applicants offered', rather than, 'all 36 places available to PP applicants offered to PP (but there may or may not have been some more who were bumped down into the score order alone category)'.

The girl in the post I linked to on the other forum had a score of 219, so it looks like a PP score of 213 would have been waiting for one or more of the 36 priority PP place holders to give the place up. Chances might well be better at Handsworth, especially if Category 2.

@MarchingFrogs Is SCGSG a KE Foundation member? I understood that it and Bishop Vesey were part of the Consortium of Grammar Schools in Birmingham but not the KE Foundation, but may be wrong.

@PatriciaHolm Is it definitely that (all PP offered) doesn’t mean that all PP children who met the standard were offered a place? I have always taken it to mean that, as otherwise wouldn’t the minimum score to be offered a place under this category be given in the brackets, as is the case for some of the other schools? I realise that you are far more knowledgeable about admissions than me so happy to be corrected!

OP, well done to your DD. I agree with others who think that she stands a very good chance of a grammar school place from the waiting lists, and as others have said, the waiting lists will be ordered purely in order of the admissions criteria, not how long you have been on the list. Best of luck.

True, but if Category 2 for waiting list purposes, it's a reasonable outlook re actually getting a place on the waiting list, once her application is ranked as anything other than 'off the bottom of the list', so to speak, come March 1st. No-one has a (legally) guaranteed place until then, anyway.

There does seem to be quite a bit of movement; had a quick trawl over on the elevenplusexams site and found this for Sutton Coldfield for 2023 entry - indicating a movement of 30 places by mid-June.
https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?p=784950#p784950

Is your home address in one of the electoral wards listed? If so, this is your catchment grammar school and your DD will be Category 2, if you provided evidence of her PP status.

But that will only be a position on the waiting list, as the application was late, so requires another on-time applicant to decline their offer and op won't know either way until late March earliest.

They are all state schools. Grammar schools are fully academically selective state schools. As opposed to state comprehensive schools, which admit either with no regard to aptitude or ability, or may admit a certain proportion of their intake through academic or other specific ability or aptitude, e.g.in sport or music.

For 2023 entry for Handsworth Girls, it says in the table on the page linked to by a pp,
Cat 5, 217, 7705m
(all PP offered)

This means that all (if there were any) on time Category 1 applicants (Looked After / Previously Looked After) were offered a place, all on time Category 2 (PP in catchment), all on time Category 3 (PP out of catchment), all Category 4 (in catchment, not LAC/PLAC or PP), plus some from Category 5 (out of catchment, not LAC/PLAC or PP), down to a score of 217, sub-ranking on distance 7705m (so not all out of catchment on 217 got in).

So for the current year, a non-PP score of 213 would not have secured a place, even if on time, but any PP applicant, applying from in or out of catchment, would have done.

The admissions policy for KEVI Handsworth Girls is here:

https://kingedwardvi.bham.sch.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Handsworth-Girls-2024-admissions-policy.pdf

Is your home address in one of the electoral wards listed? If so, this is your catchment grammar school and your DD will be Category 2, if you provided evidence of her PP status.

Every school has its own determined admissions policy - the Camp Hill one is like Handsworth's, but with different electoral wards in its catchment. Although it is also a KE Foundation member, Sutton Coldfield's is different (no catchment area, so no 'Category 2/3' or 'Catgory 4/5' differentiation). Queen Mary's has a slightly different policy again: no catchment area, but within the PP category, priority given to applicants attending a state primary school within Walsall.

LEA - Local Education Authority

And you've done your application now, just late?

We were asked for either letters from primary school or the school to sign a form but this was a different education authority (LEA) so yours might be more efficient and have the information already.

Sutton Coldfield

We had a wobble last year about which school we'd chosen and DD was offered places at all the other schools during the summer due to PP status. It's stressful, but I wouldn't worry. Just make sure they all have your applications (or supplementary forms or whatever) and proof of PP status now! I'd go so far as to say that if the LEA really want to widen participation they would allocate a little time to help with this.

It will be based only on first round offers made on National Offer Day.

Sutton coalfield has a maximum of 36 places for pupil premium children; I think that stat means all of those 36 were offered. They would have been offered to those who applied on time, who passed and were pupil premium, as the status is for offers on offer day in march.

It doesn't mean all PP children who applied got an offer. There may have been some on the waiting list, and some may have got in by the start of term.

All of your grammar choices are very likely to be filled on offer day, OP, but you should be pretty high on the waiting lists because of the PP.