Shocking League Table Of Bucks and Herts Secondaries!

@TizerorFizz have my first mumsnet ODFOD. I'm out of patience with your silly ramblings.

Not rate them? No I don’t particularly but I might if that was a strategy for dc. However in Bucks, in this area, you are only getting DCGS and Chesham as options. So what previous dc choose to do doesn’t mean much.

It’s a highly dubious measurement unless you are a scientist and want that career. Dc might want something totally different and prefer a school that can deliver that. Obsession with Oxbridge and medical degrees is narrow and not reflecting modern society. So why not CS degrees? Or economics degrees? Medicine isn’t the be all and end all and it’s relatively niche. I might prefer to know numbers going to USA unis, for example. I might even dare to want good teaching of music and art! Or one of the subjects no one cares about amongst competitive parents.

I see all dc going to grammars as individuals. They aren’t identical to an earlier cohort. So what others choose, and indeed don’t choose, has little bearing on the dc coming into the school as they are not clones. A grammar school will have lots of highly successful dc. There are umpteen ways to measure success and mine isn’t Medics. It’s irrelevant. It dismisses many other arts/ humanities dc who want a different path. I want to see success in a broad range of subjects.

You've repeatedly made the point that you don't rate medical degrees. So far, so subjective. Personal tastes aside, you cannot argue that any place to study medicine isn't a big achievement. Fact. Not the case for many subjects where places can be a big achievement on certain courses at certain universities but can be very different in terms of UCAS tariff elsewhere. Fact. No-one is saying a medicine degree is the holy grail but it is a clear and measurable achievement and for that reason tends to come up as a measure of a school's quality. Of course there are others like % going to Russell Group destinations but drilling down from that, given that high ranking universities like Bath and St Andrews aren't even RG and competition levels vary massively by course, that is a flawed high-level metric.

Not everyone is a scientist or cares about medics . It’s a very narrow measure of a school. Who cares about medicine apart from those who want it. It’s a grammar school so a wide array of degrees should be lauded.

You are citing one specific one prestigious law degree (plenty of law degrees from many other institutions aren't) with the only private medical school in the UK (the other 43 are the standardised norm). Not sure what your point is.

Yeah it changed a few years ago (4 maybe?). Sorry to hear you missed out @Soapon 😂

Part of the reason was that the boys school was considered much better at STEM subjects - maths in particular - so girls wanting to do those subjects might prefer to switch for 6th Form. Though reading a couple of current parents' opinions on this thread, it seems that isn't the case.

Plus doing Law, for example, at Durham is probably guaranteeing a decent career ahead of medicine at Buckingham/MK. Why are scientists the only ones who count? It’s very odd and no doubt panders to parents views. Many more high flying careers on offer you live in south Bucks!

No it hasn’t always been the case re medicine! No one sector think it was that special! Maybe some parents do but it didn’t used to be singled out and many grammars still don’t!

Wait, they let girls into the boys school now?!
we had different lunch breaks to discourage mingling!

However saying this isn’t a good school is way off the mark on any reasonable measure. Medics isn’t one of those. That’s a hugely personal choice and look at the bad press for that job! I would t suggest it for most dc.

Schools are not measured by who wants medicine! Why should they be? It’s one career out of many

Now it’s measured by medics produced which seems odd.

@TizerorFizz it is and always has been the way that many schools cite how many students they got into Oxbridge and Medicine each year as a measure of their academic success. The reason for this is not that they think these routes are the only prestigious routes but that they present clearly demonstrable ones. Oxbridge is Oxbridge and always has cachet for any course. Likewise, any medical degree offer at any institution is a huge achievement. It's not like subjects like engineering, law, computer science, economics etc. where of course you have your prestigious Oxbridge, LSE and Imperial degrees but you also have less prestigious courses being offered at other institutions which are lower tariff. If you don't meet the high selection standards for medicine degree, there is no fallback apart from another course entirely.

And you may think Medicine is an unattractive option but even looking at it from your strict financial return perspective, it is still the degree with the highest financial return on investment.

@thing47 Yes they do. Plus the excessive tutoring for 11 plus shows that parents still want this school. Others are available of course.

Do you have DCs currently or recently at the school?

That's a fair question @Hardyards . I guess 'yes' in general terms but not in school terms iyswim. So for example most of DS's time there was under the previous head teacher. Although some of his friends still have brothers there.

I think the reason some girls switched from DCHS to DCGS in sixth form was that the boys school was considered better at sciences for A level, so ironically if you were aiming to do medicine or other STEM subjects the boys school was thought a better bet. That was certainly the case when DD2 (who's a scientist) was thinking of going to the girls school for sixth form and a couple of friends already at the school warned her off. Sounds like that might have changed from what you're saying, and I bow to your current experiences over my slightly out-of-date ones.

Its results still stand up pretty well overall, though.

I do accept schools change. Of course I do. What I’m trying to say (obviously poorly) is that different people want different things from a school. In DHs day, they introduced engineering A level. It suited lots of boys. They did an architecture course. They did sessions at Brunel uni. They were able to cater for more practical dc. I accept parents don’t care about this type of education any more but schools really can inspire dc if they have the right staff. In some subjects this is clearly a challenge now. However saying this isn’t a good school is way off the mark on any reasonable measure. Medics isn’t one of those. That’s a hugely personal choice and look at the bad press for that job! I would t suggest it for most dc.

In the City??? Absolutely not. Has run a very successful engineering consultancy. We are still local. Just checked - 4 heads. No huge turnover of heads.

And what has my DD got to do with anything??How is she the best? Do you know her?

Also what’s wrong with a school producing lots of engineers? I’m clearly talking about the past but many pupils were great at subjects allied to engineering and had a brilliant engineering education there. It was known for it. Yes, we’re a bit long in the tooth. Now it’s measured by medics produced which seems odd.

Until your children attend a school you have no lived experience. We selected DCGS because on paper it is an excellent school and on paper, grammar schools offer greater opportunities. This is a school that pumped out Dominic Raab. I assumed he was, literally, a joker. Anyway, 30 years ok, you husband thrived in the powerhouse and no doubt has thrived in the city or similar. The world has moved on!

@Replyingnow2 My DD? What’s she got to do with anything? Glad she’s the best though! At what?

So how is the progress 8 so high? This might be down to stupid parents being desperate and wanting tutors I guess but unlikely. Unfortunately you live in a ridiculously competitive area. The north of Bucks is a bit more laid back. Too many force fed dc in the south and desperate parents. I’ve seen them where I live. It’s pathetic. We’ve had dc in our village start bed wetting due to pressure to get 11 plus. Parents are mad.

The Bucks grammars have always taken a fairly wide range of abilities within the high achievers. Some aren’t far away from middle achievers and over achieve at the 11 plus. So of course they won’t all get 8/9 grades or As and above. It’s inevitable.

Why move from the girls grammar to the boys? Never really understand why. How can DCGS be better than DCHS? I would question a move if it had been my DD. Of course a school sells itself but you don’t have to fall for it. Boys are available outside of school.

@TizerorFizz you are hilarious 😆 This comment made my day!

You don’t seem to understand the word “powerhouse” as applied to education. Why don’t you think it applies? When DH was there it certainly was!

How old is your husband, 19? 😂 I’m assuming he’s in his 50s. There is every chance I know him. I grew up in Amersham. Back to the laugh of the day, the school must be eight headmasters on! Trust me, it’s not the school it was, but you know best @TizerorFizz. you keep in stamping those feet. Btw, your DD is the best.

There are more managed transfers than you would believe. I assume this keeps the attainment scores up. I’m also amazed by the numbers of children with tutors for multiple subjects. I’m starting to see for myself why tutors for A level sciences are a necessity. The school alone can’t help the students achieve high grade As. These are essential to study medicine. This might account for why so few went on to study medicine this year.

@thing47 @TizerorFizz umm, I think many DCGS parents have similar thoughts to @Replyingnow2. Do you have DCs currently or recently at the school?

With my daughter, I attended the year 12 parent consultations last night. She moved to the boys’ school from the girls after GCSEs. External Sixth form entrants have to have v strong GCSE scores. Like a couple of her friends, they are starting to think they made a mistake moving. The physics and chemistry teaching, for example, is far from inspiring.

They moved because it was sold as being a better learning experience to that of the girl’s’ school. Instead, one teacher is new and clearly unsure what she’s doing and the other is jaded and seems to not care what they’re doing.

The headmaster is not a patch on the headmaster at the girls school either. One is smug the other is a people leader.

Progress 8 is 1.19 for 2023. Well above average and better than DCHS. Surely that’s impressive and tells you not all the dc there are brilliant when they arrive? Yes, there’s the odd blip in MFL and it looks odd. However Attainment 8 measures very similar to the girls but the boys have made more progress. I think reports of the school’s decline are premature. The Amersham School progress 8 is 0.45 for comparison,

Modern Foreign Language.
How old are you children? If they are young, things could be very different by the time they go to senior school.

moved there - not mined.