If your child won a place at a competitive secondary….

We were told from nursery (montessori) that our eldest was exceptionally bright, yes. Got into a top secondary school, got perfect sets of grades for GCSEs and A Levels and on track for a 1st in a highly academic subject at a top uni.
Second was always more middle of the road, with talents in other directions (eg drama). Also did well, at a much less prestigious secondary, and got a very good set of GCSE results. Won't be aiming as high (in ranks) for uni applications but should do fine.

Yes definitely. Dd has always stood out in terms of cognitive development from around age 1.

My younger dc were never as academic in primary, but very different skill sets and personality types. They didn't try for selective grammars as they were going to private school so I don't have a benchmark to compare. Maybe they would have got in but I don't know!

Can you see this making a real difference at secondary level, where applications for the sought-after schools come in from such a wide area including suburbs north of London (where a lot of people presumably moved to from areas like ours?!)? I can’t really see it - surely the more dramatic impact, if it feeds through, is more likely to be what’s happening with London primaries - the under subscribed ones just becoming more under subscribed than ever, and some being forced to close?

It is impacting primaries that traditionally would be oversubscribed hence why catchments are increasing & even in oversubscribed primaries in London the upper years tend to thin out where families switch to private or move out. Every pupil counts budget wise because schools need certain things regardless of numbers.

I said it would create more division in secondaries. I think the very popular ones will become even more in demand but I think the traditional back up/2nd choice options will suffer more as opposed to just the “bad” ones.

"you can tell as much by the parents as the child."

At primary year 2 this is so true.

I believe with London primaries, there were some bumper birth years (2008-12 roughly) which saw them expanding their provisions. We had one go from 1 form to 3 form entry and a new 2 form entry open up. Now those kids are in secondary, more places are becoming available. You may see some of those schools shrink.

We were right on the edge of catchment for our primary with DD1 in 2014, DD2 only got a sibling place in 2016, but now we'd easily be in catchment.

Some great comps also have language and music ability tests- so it need not all be crazy amounts of academic tutoring. The advantage of staying in London is huge cultural opportunities and excellent public transport.

We don’t know what will happen when Labour gets in. There may be an increase in lottery places and only the super rich will be using private schools. The latter means selective state places will be even more crazy. Since it became so competitive a lot of people are now shying away from the whole toxic 11 plus process, out of principle.

Enjoy the younger years and the great state primary and stop worrying about secondary schools right now. Time to worry is not until year 5. A lot can change in the next 3 years.

A primary teacher once said to me you can tell as much by the parents as the child. By that token your DD is going to do well regardless.

DD was average amongst a cohort of above average kids at primary. A good reader, creative, imaginative, low average for maths.
Was tutored for one year in small groups setting. Soared at English and NVR. Maths much improved.
Did astonishingly well at 11+ (better than we expected) so I think we may have underestimated her abilities. Ranked in top 100 out of over a thousand.
Decent performance at high school, steady, conscientious. It all came together in the last couple of years and she's come out with very good GCSE's. Grade 9 in Maths and 7 in FM. (Not taking Maths at A level)
Primary schools don't always bring out the academic side of kids, I'm happy that DD had a lovely time at school but it was the more focused (and very high quality) teaching at her tutors that filled in lots of gaps in her understanding.

The London primary has more and more space available in the coming years it is across the broad.

but I guess we’d have to be realistic about the chances of all three kids simultaneously being given in-year places at a great / popular London primary if we moved - maybe we’d be lucky, but I think more likely we’d be looking at them going to different schools at least for a while and all the upheaval and logistics that involves.

London schools are suffering from falling rolls so I wouldn’t discount the idea of moving them. It’s not hit secondaries yet but when it does I think it will create even more division (headcount impacts funding) so it’s something to be mindful of.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/london-schools-face-crisis-pupil-numbers-plummet-b1084718.html#comments-area

One thing to note is Latymer is a boy heavy school, about 2/3 boys and 1/3 girls in some year groups. Not sure if make any difference for some.

3 x private school fees sounds terrifying. I would say primaries are generally good across London, so though you may feel attached to your primary, I wouldn't necessarily see that as a deal breaker to moving.

@TempsPerdu with a Y9 at Latymer, I haven't found it at all hothousy. In fact just the opposite. She really doesn't have that much homework - 2-3 hours a week at most, and the teachers are very encouraging. It's a really lovely school if you can get in!

Such an interesting thread. You sound very sensible and clear sighted OP - your DD is lucky to have a parent who ‘gets’ her as much as you clearly do, and who has thought all eventualities through so thoroughly.

We’re in a very similar boat, albeit coming at things from a slightly different angle. DD is in Year 1, clearly bright, top table in her class (probably top 1/2 within that), exceeding expectations for everything, fluent reader etc. She has been described as ‘exceptional’ by the teaching staff at her school.

However… given that she’s only just turned 6 I’m trying to determine how much of this is genuine ability (DP and I are both pretty academic) and how much is DD’s fortunate circumstances - I’m an ex-teacher, have very much been around for her during the preschool years, and due to my own professional knowledge and experience DD was prepped extremely well for school. She also seems to be in quite a challenging/low ability class, so I’m not sure whether it’s just a case of her being a big fish in a very small pond at the moment.

We’re also in North London (albeit in a different borough from you) and we also have Latymer as pretty much the only secondary option that appeals to us. Both DP and I went to Latymer and loved it, and I want a similarly positive secondary experience for DD. Like you, we want to find somewhere that suits her but don’t really want to hothouse, and if Russell Group/Oxbridge isn’t the right path for her then that’s absolutely fine.

If Latymer isn’t looking to be an option then we are also potentially looking to move, as the comps where we are just don’t float my boat (our most likely option is a super strict academy which, for me, isn’t ticking the happiness/well-being boxes, plus none are particularly strong on arts/music, which are important to us). While on paper it seems utterly ridiculous to base a decision on relocating on the academic abilities or otherwise of a 6 year old, I know from having watched friends do it that the whole tortuous moving process means you need to set the ball rolling earlier rather than later.

I will say, having taught Year 1 for several years, that the children who I identified as being the highest achievers generally did end up being the ones who ultimately won places at selective schools. Notably my two top table ‘Latymer material’ children from one particular class both ended up there (as did the precocious one who, when I asked if anyone had any questions about what to expect in Year 1, said ‘Yes, when do we start learning single sciences?)!

Both my DDs went/go to state Grammars. We didn't really notice anything with either of them in terms of academics. They were both strong readers and good at maths but that's about it. We tutored for both of them and they comfortably got into the schools they wanted to go to and weren't stressed over the 11+ at all.

But we didn't have "wow DD is so clever" moment with either of them - we put them in for the 11+ mostly because the local options are awful and private wouldn't have been possible without lots of adjustments. And also a "hey lets see what happens."

@LeopardPJS yes agree. We still encourage him to do his spellings and we read every day. He does enjoy reading and being read to so will continue with that.

I do want to try other methods to teach him though so have looked at the Doodle Math and Timestable rockstar that were mentioned earlier in previous posts. I try not using a tablet too much but I think these apps would help rather than sitting and writing - which is is very reluctant to do. Makes me think he would never have the concentration span to study for 11+ but he is still young.

Kids develop at different rates. I was average for primary but academically excelled later on, some of ds1’s friends have been obviously very academic from the start of school and others who seemed very bright initially have settled a bit and are now bright but not exceptional.
remember mumsnet has an unexpectedly large number of posts from those with high achieving offspring…by definition the majority of the population are somewhere around ‘average’ and there is nothing wrong with that!

DD is at a super selective grammar.

Yes, it was evident from the start of primary. Her foundation teacher said at our first parents evening that she was very able and would have a good academic career. She was always exceeding expectations/greater depth, top table etc etc throughout primary.

DD moved to selective Juniors at yr3/age 7 as a "July baby". She wasn't speedy to "get" reading and writing in reception but a chance remark from her yr1 teacher in the summer term made us re-assess.

DD's school used age standardised tests.

NB we aren't in London, so entrance exams are probably a lot more relaxed.

Ours was always in the top set / top 25%, but all children develop at different times.

Independent schools online or MC test does apply age standardisation, for open written format it is harder to do so. And there is interview round so the age thing is subjective.

I would say the procedure will have some change in the future since a lot on kids got tutoring at early age that distorted the effectiveness of age standardisation.

And I don't think this is something specific to be worried about at year 2 at all..