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Original poster

Dyscalculia and reasonable adjustments

58 replies

MarmeeMarch4 · 04/11/2023 18:16

My daughter was diagnosed with dyscalculia in 2022, at the very end of year 4. She is now in year 6 and passed all areas of the Kent Test except - surprise surprise - maths. Her Ed Psych report shows above average cognitive ability in all areas, and a specific problem with number (not shape, geometry, logic etc, which are all in the same range as her other abilities).

Going forward, for any appeal we may or may not lodge on her behalf to a grammar school, but also for SATS and general secondary school education, we know that there are particular adjustments that would enable her to access higher level maths questions. These are: a number line, a times table square, and a calculator that shows workings. If she had those, which would take away the problem of working memory which is a central feature of the condition, she is perfectly capable of understanding the calculations and the logic of any given maths problem. But these are not allowed in the UK (they are in parts of the US and in some other European countries).

I know some of you will say 'she just needs to learn her times tables' etc, 'and if she can't she just isn't good at maths'. But actually, without these things, she can't even try the higher level questions or begin to think about more complex reasoning. With them, she is capable of so much more. It's like she's just stuck behind this stupid barrier, which is actually meaningless (it is perfectly possible, even in a career that involves complex maths, to use a calculator and/or have a times table square on your desk - these are very low level skills to do with memory rather than actual maths. She understands the principles, but struggles to retain number facts). It feels to me as if understanding and resources for dyslexia are so much better than for dyscalculia, which is so poorly understood by the education system. And it also feels like this is a barrier to children actually being able to access large parts of the maths curriculum because of some needless ideological bullshit about calculators and dumbing down, or the current government's obsession with rote learning. Has anybody been in this position, and has anybody found a way around it?

I know that in the SATS, and even at GCSE, none of these accommodations are allowed as it is felt they would unfairly advantage children with dyscalculia. But I also feel like it is just straight up disability discrimination. I'm just looking for a sense of whether there are other people out there dealing with a similar issue, really ... as well as any potential solutions people might have.

Sorry for the essay, and TIA for any constructive advice!

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SofiaAmes · 02/09/2025 03:38

In fact, there are studies that show that this innate sense of number is in fact missing in a child with dyscalculia!!!
So glad to hear the update on your DD (even if it's 2 years later).
I also want to add for all the doubters on the thread. My dd has now graduated from University despite her dyscalculia (and dyslexia) and is working at a job where she has to purchase/supply catering/food/decorations for a 1000 people and celebrities a day in a high pressure, fast moving environment. She does this with huge spreadsheets, long lists and multiple orders to multiple venues with such efficiency that her boss keeps trying to get her to do more events. DD still can't add 5 and 7 in her head and misspells 3 letter words and the name of the city that she's currently been flown to, but that doesn't stop her from being really good at her job because she was given accommodations in school and learned how to work around her learning differences and have confidence in her math abilities.

RigIt · 31/08/2025 00:45

Humans (and many? animals) have an innate sense of number. It’s something we are born with. There was a really interesting documentary on how many animals have the same, even sea creatures - for example they can tell what is the biggest group out of a group of two different sizes. Because of this we are able to estimate number without counting, particularly for smaller numbers. I think it was under 7 we were most accurate at if I recall correctly, and this number was the same in the animal kingdom. We don’t need to be taught this, it’s hard wired in. They showed that very annals babies could do it. It was amazing! Anyway just my musings, but when I found out about this I suspected that this innate sense of number is what is “missing” in a child with dyscalculia.

Original poster
MarmeeMarch4 · 31/08/2025 00:17

I mean that dyscalculia is so little understood.

I mean as I said upthread that for kids with dyscalculia, calculators are one reasonable adjustment that would allow them to tackle more difficult maths without getting stuck at the first hurdle. Other educational systems recognise this.

She needs lots of manipulatives and visual representations, the same problem taught from multiple angles - slowly - until she grasps it, repetition repetition repetition of the basics and no zooming off into more complex examples, a calculator for basic arithmetic, and real life practice. The most important thing is that she isn’t made to feel stupid or slow, despite learning maths differently to other kids. It is so easy for this to knock the confidence of kids who are trying their best - but of course they need some number literacy in life, and one of the diagnostic criteria for dyscalculia is that numerical ability is out of step with the child’s ability in areas, so most kids have lots of capabilities that could help them tackle these difficulties. But the anxiety that builds up around maths can be debilitating and affect those areas too if teachers don’t know about it. Small group teaching for kids with dyscalculia - which my daughter now receives at her school twice a week - makes a huge difference.

OP posts:
Pythag · 30/08/2025 20:48

MarmeeMarch4 · 30/08/2025 12:30

Hi, bit weird as the thread is almost two years old now!

I wasn't 'stressing her' about her weaknesses for goodness' sake. She's not on this thread, and has had maths anxiety since the minute she went to school - we've done nothing but focus on her strengths, but of course she has to keep going to maths lessons until she is 16. I am aware that in an exam the things I'm asking for would not be allowed, but she was at that point years away from exams and needed to actually learn to do the maths first (and in other exam systems they are allowed - our system is antiquated on this as so many other things).

She didn't get the appeal to secondary and has gone to a local secondary modern. As it turns out, they have excellent SEN support so she is doing well and we have a lot of plans in place, and while maths will always be a struggle, she is discovering the ways she learns best.

I am delighted that your daughter is doing well.

As a maths teacher, though, I do personally disagree that the way we teach and examine maths in England is antiquated. I think it is the result of a gigantic compromise, but I think our current GCSE system, with two calculator papers and a non-calculator paper is actually a good system and I think our A-level maths system is really excellent.

I am interested in what you mean by “the way she learns best”. What specifically do you mean hear? I am a maths teacher so interested in this.

TeenToTwenties · 30/08/2025 14:02

@MarmeeMarch4 As a side comment, DD used the first 5 mins or so of her GCSE maths non calculator paper to write out a times tables grid. We considered this time well spent as she could then refer to it throughout the rest of the exam.

Original poster
MarmeeMarch4 · 30/08/2025 12:30

Hi, bit weird as the thread is almost two years old now!

I wasn't 'stressing her' about her weaknesses for goodness' sake. She's not on this thread, and has had maths anxiety since the minute she went to school - we've done nothing but focus on her strengths, but of course she has to keep going to maths lessons until she is 16. I am aware that in an exam the things I'm asking for would not be allowed, but she was at that point years away from exams and needed to actually learn to do the maths first (and in other exam systems they are allowed - our system is antiquated on this as so many other things).

She didn't get the appeal to secondary and has gone to a local secondary modern. As it turns out, they have excellent SEN support so she is doing well and we have a lot of plans in place, and while maths will always be a struggle, she is discovering the ways she learns best.

OP posts:
Thelondonone · 30/08/2025 09:40

I think you need to plan for the future. In an actual exam, the things you are asking for would not be allowed. In the same way a child with dyslexia isn’t allowed a dictionary. I think there needs to be a balance between support in lessons and preparation for the future. Any access arrangements have to level the playing field, not give an advantage. Good luck, the school sounds great and hope secondary are equally supportive.

OhHellolittleone · 30/08/2025 09:39

If WM is the main issue rather than number sense (I think that what you said) are you working on ways to improve her WM and strategies within maths to help her have less to remember?

Can I ask, was she premature? (Not relevant to your question, but I’m interested as I often find children with dyscalculia were)

Have you asked the school to raise these issues with JCQ?

LupaMoonhowl · 30/08/2025 09:30

curaçao · 28/11/2023 17:52

The handling of numbers though is a form of intelligence, and while your DD may have inteligence in other areas, in this area unfortunately she doesnt!

Indeed /maybe focus her strengths rather than stressing her with all this emphasis on her weaknesses.

AnnaRLN · 30/08/2025 09:00

You are a star so helpful

AnnaRLN · 30/08/2025 09:00

Rolypoly2961 · 04/11/2023 18:33

The only access arrangement available at present would be extra time - presuming she has a below average score on a measure of maths fluency and one other area of cognitive processing. Have you looked at the ronitbird website/books http://www.ronitbird.com/ There are some excellent activities to support a sense of number and to help learning times tables

You are a star so helpful

SofiaAmes · 29/11/2023 21:45

"If it is required then she would be allowed a basic, four function only, calculator for any non calc exams."
What an ordeal we went through finding a 4 function calculator rather than the 5+ function ones that most places sell/have. We eventually found it on Amazon, but took ages to receive...so definitely do not leave this purchase until the last minute if it is stated as a requirement.

Mathsisfun · 29/11/2023 21:40

Secondary Maths teacher in Scotland here.
She would be assessed by learning support department and we would do assessments with and without a calculator to see what difference the support made. If it is required then she would be allowed a basic, four function only, calculator for any non calc exams.

Original poster
MarmeeMarch4 · 29/11/2023 19:16

This is massively helpful - thank you so much! Curacao take note!

Actually since I posted her school have started giving me the week’s maths lessons ahead of time so I can help her before she gets to class. It massively helps with the speed thing as she has already remembered and grasped the concept before she arrives at school and doesn’t feel put on the spot or under pressure. I think it will help - but online classes sound a really good option too

OP posts:
Original poster
MarmeeMarch4 · 29/11/2023 19:12

Curaçao go and educate yourself. My daughter can do maths. She requires some reasonable adjustments to allow her to access the curriculum. Would you say a Paralympic athlete is not good at sport because they require some adjustments to participate? Would you say a dyslexic novelist is less good a writer than everyone else because they need a computer and a spellchecker? No.

and you say the exam boards etc agree with you. Well they don’t in Scotland. Workplaces are required to make reasonable adjustments of the kind I propose. The Royal College of Nursing makes these adjustments. Many American states do. So this is not a hard science. I won’t make any snarky comments about your intelligence, despite the fact that you have done the same to my daughter, who is a child and a stranger to you. But I’d advise you to at least think before you speak if you want to be the judge of other people’s intelligence!

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dootball · 29/11/2023 15:12

Have you thought about her entering the iGCSE maths instead - the content is around 90% the same (and as good as identical until the end of y9), but there are only two exams (2 hours each) and both allow calculators?
This would obviously be extremely unpopular with her currently school as it won't count towards their results, but may be more useful for your daughter.

Schooldinner2 · 29/11/2023 10:14

There is an issue - maybe since the curriculum changes that teachers in primary are judging maths ability by speed and generally incorrectly.
Dc1 very bright but reception maths at 4 top easy but moving up to y1 at 5y3 it was too hard in a group situation where she couldnt write well yet either. So ended up with a not met. Y2 met SATs but only 102. We hadnt looked at any papers etc. Y3 lockdown and by then she was very resistant to maths especially. Y4 other lockdown and would take all day to do the white rose maths. By y6 the teacher said 'she wont get exceeding as she didnt come on as exceeding at maths'
Mar parents eve predicted 104/105 and agreed really she needed extra time but didnt fit criteria.
Anyway we did a lot at home and say jan she was only getting half the sats paper done. By apr she was getting say 38/40. But still very inacurate silly mistakes.
She got 114. But the missed marks are all silly mistakes - its frustrating to see her underestimated. I think speed and concentration(ADHD?).
Similarly in y7 her tests have been ok but looking at it shes getting say 70% instead of the 90%+ she could have got and again not finishing the papers. Her midyis came out much lower for the maths with about 104.

How much time are you putting into times tables op? 10 min per day?

I agree ideally there would be calculator and non calculator papers like on gcses.

Mine gets the hard stuff right so if you looked at 2 kids you would think ah x result would mean they cant do ratio or algebra etc. But no my kid would have added instead of subtract (and not even where it wasnt clear because its reasoning, no its on a q with the sum on!).
And if like pp said you changed pens fpr extra time she often wpuld have done much
move in the extra time. But if we hadnt worked to speed her up a little at least she wpuld struggle to get much work done in a lesson
I think availability of calculators would help in say rechecking work so they see the point of accuracy and checking.
Its not even the multiplication mine is bad or slow at its more often adding.
Personally i wouldnt have introduced add/sub in the jumping way its really confusing. And more time spent on actual practice. As umo that was why her ks1 sars were so low as they hadnt introduced columns yet.

Anyway dc2 is seemingly better - older in year. But still not exceeding. As i say - school seem to judge largely on speed.
If we take the assumption dd was say 60th percentile in y1 she went up to 10th at least by y6.

SofiaAmes · 29/11/2023 00:47

My dd has dyscalculia (and dyslexia and processing issues) coupled with a genius IQ. We are luckily in the USA where she was in fact allowed a calculator, but not until high school (and lots of complaining on my part). And as others have pointed out, it helps to be white and middle class to even get SEN noticed in the first place.
In the process of getting dd assessed, I realized that I too have the same learning difference. I am however old enough that we were not expected to do mathematics quickly when we were young. I counted (and still do at 60) on my fingers, did math slowly and because I was at a small progressive private school for middle school, was allowed to do it "my way" during the formative years so never ended up being told or feeling that I was "no good at math." And in fact, ended up being very successful at math and went to M.I.T. and got an A in advanced calculus despite not knowing my times tables or being able to add 5 and 7 in my head.

In the case of my dd, we tried a variety of accommodations. The use of a calculator was helpful, but engendered so much grief from most of her math teachers that it finally wasn't the most useful accommodation. Extra time (50% extra) was useful, but not enough because there was a lot of anxiety tied up with the constant shaming by her teachers and peers of her being slow and using her fingers for counting. The most successful accommodation was her being allowed to do her math classes online and un-timed so that no one could see her working slowly and/or counting on her fingers. (There are several online programs that are recognized in many school districts in the USA these days.)
She did abysmally on her standardized university entrance exams on the math side of things, but still managed to get into a good university based on her performance in other subjects and her good grades in her actual math classes (and a recommendation from her math teacher). She is now in her final year of university (with some additional time accommodations) and doing well in all her subjects including math and science.

All of this is to say, is there any way you can get your dd into an online math class?

curaçao · 29/11/2023 00:15

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curaçao · 29/11/2023 00:12

The fact that the adjustments you want your dd to have are NOT allowed shows that the exam boards agree with me however much you dont want to believe it!

CormorantStrikesBack · 28/11/2023 23:55

I don’t know much about dyscalcula but Dd is dyslexic and also has a very poor working term memory. All formally diagnosed by a Ed psych in primary school. She actually passed her eleven plus (not Kent), she got no allowance not even extra time.

However she did not get a place. Locally places are decided on distance. Another 400yds closer and she’d have got in.

So we appealed. Prior to the hearing I asked for her score and she had scraped a pass. Now the appeal was over a decade ago so some details are a bit hazy but it was a blood bath. The panel were very hostile. I talked about her academic difficulties and that I thought because of this a smaller grammar would be better for her. One aggressive panel person was obviously very anti SEN and said that a grammar school wasn’t the place for someone with these issues. Some awful stuff. The panel aren’t allowed to know the score but knew I knew. And kept indirectly but firmly asking me. I didn’t answer and they alluded to her having a low score as I wouldn’t say. They said they felt she would struggle. I cried at this point and kept saying that she’d passed, that wasn’t what the hearing was supposed to be about.

she did not get a place in appeal but a boy on our road (further away distance wise as well) who had scored nearly full marks won his appeal. I know his parents. His appeal consisted of “our kid is so bright it would be a travesty if he didn’t get a place”.

i guess what im trying to say is be prepared for anti SEN sentiment at the appeal, a real snobbery about your kid not being bright enough/academic enough and a general lack of understanding of SEN. 😢

Original poster
MarmeeMarch4 · 28/11/2023 23:40

Curaçao that’s a hilarious answer. Weeks late and wildly misinformed and totally unhelpful. But thanks anyway! 😂😂😂😂😂

OP posts:
Bimblesalong · 28/11/2023 21:53

Gosh some people have tipped vinegar in the sugar bowl today.

curaçao · 28/11/2023 17:52

The handling of numbers though is a form of intelligence, and while your DD may have inteligence in other areas, in this area unfortunately she doesnt!

borntobequiet · 08/11/2023 07:32

MapleSyrupWaffles · 05/11/2023 09:24

I've worked with many children with maths difficulties; very few have had a specific deficit in number sense, but those that have wouldn not have found that aspect of it to be mitigated by use of a calculator. Their issue was really in terms of understanding number - recognising, for example, that if you're subtracting, you can't get a number bigger than you started with; or that if a number is a factor of 100 bigger than what would be sensible, it must be wrong; or that you don't need to do a written working or count on your fingers every time for something like 60+4 because of the way the place value system/language of numbers is constructed. Those are the sorts of issues they have, and a calculator doesn't really fix that part of it. A number line can help, or physical number apparatus - but not particularly in a test situation. Those might help get the right answer to a question at times, but not really let them access higher level maths problems, because it's the understanding of the lower level problems that is the issue.

However, most of them - along with a great many others with maths difficulty but not dyscalculia - do also have working memory deficits, as well as some phonological deficits that make auditory repetition of number facts and tables - or copying down questions, remembering part answers to questions etc - difficult. Some of them also have sequencing difficulties that impact reading/writing down numbers correctly, etc. And those areas can be helped by calculators, by allowing jottings on mental arithmetic tests, by allowing number squares, having readers/scribes, etc. I think if a child is showing good understanding of high level maths problems with these adaptations alone when working in class, then allowing them on an exam would be sensible, particularly things like a table square on an otherwise non-calculator exam. I have taught someone who was going to study maths at university who wanted a table square. There were actually very few places that she needed it, as most of the maths she was doing on her exams by that stage was very abstract, but there were the occasional time where she felt it would be helpful (possibly more as anxiety reduction to know it was there). But she would definitely not have described herself as dyscalculic, but more deficits with working memory and possible dyslexia.

So I would concentrate more on the deficits in short term memory and possibly phonological deficits that are known to impact auditory repetition, because it is clearer how mitigating those deficits could still allow someone to understand and succeed at higher level maths problems. Focusing on a deficit in number is more likely to make someone think that the adaptations are going to replace the area that is being tested (even if you don't agree).

Very good post.