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Original poster

Secondary application from abroad

64 replies

ReturnfromtheStars · 02/11/2023 01:06

Hello Mumsnetters, hopefully someone has been in a similar situation or is very knowledgable about the admission system and can help.

I am not from the UK originally and was hoping for my 2 children to be able to
experience life in my home country. After careful planning, we moved countries
in 2022 August. We did all the legwork to get the kids into the education
system in my home country and now have to do this in reverse in the UK.

Here comes the question: after several phone discussions with the School Admissions Office, we were assured our child’s secondary application will be accepted by using our UK address and putting no primary school on the form. So we filled the form in and sent it off (online) well before the 31st October deadline.

However, on 1st November my husband received a phone call stating we have to put our overseas address on the form, and the application is now deemed incorrect and won’t be accepted as an application on time, but instead will be treated as a late application.

What can we do? I am aware, the authority has to place our child somewhere, but despite all the positives of our move, our child also had considerable disruption and it would be preferable to go to a good school in walking distance with friends. Considering we applied with the correct form on time, following advice from the Admissions Office it sounds like a case of “machine says no” so I would really like to be able to use the correct words to get the message across.

OP posts:
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maplesirrup · 02/11/2023 08:48

Would the above be accepted? We are renting out our house, which we are giving notice on for 30th April, would that be enough proof do you think?

@ReturnfromtheStars After you have given notice you may be able to submit that as evidence of your planned move. But you can't expect them to accept it now - what if you change your mind? What if the family in your home are also applying for a school place? They may not have any idea of your intention and, even if they did, they presumably have no other address they can use. This is why only your children's current residential address is acceptable.

) admission authorities will need an address in order to fully apply their admission arrangements and rank applicants for their oversubscription criteria

Yes, but they can do this with your abroad address. If the policy is distance based, you will be at the end of the waiting list, but you can update your address when you move, which will push you up the waiting list

Original poster
ReturnfromtheStars · 02/11/2023 08:48

I would also like to know, what does permanently living mean? My child lives permanently at her home address, and moved temprarily overseas (for 2 years). Her permanent address is our house.

In my home country, there is even a term "permanent address" vs "temporary address" which is recorded on your address card. E.g. a student living in uni accomodation could easily have their parents address as their permanent and their student flat as their temporary address. But seems "permanent address" means a slightly different thing in the UK.

OP posts:
Original poster
ReturnfromtheStars · 02/11/2023 08:43

Hi @TeenDivided sadly no written evidence about the admissions office telling us to use UK address, everything was discussed on the phone, although apparently phone calls were recorded and my husband has the dates and times.

@maplesirrup , yes your interpretation is my husband's interpretation too, that they are processing the application, just with the abroad address, which they are now asking for.

However, I found further parts on the same website:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/schools-admissions-applications-from-overseas-children#establishing-home-address

Establishing ‘home’ address

(...) admission authorities will need an address in order to fully apply their admission arrangements and rank applicants for their oversubscription criteria.
(...)

Admission authorities could ask prospective movers or returners where they will be living (see paragraph 2.5 of the school admissions code). This might include whether parents:

  • own or rent a property in the area to which they intend to return or move

Would the above be accepted? We are renting out our house, which we are giving notice on for 30th April, would that be enough proof do you think?

  • not paying council tax, as paying it in current country, my husband temporarily lives with his sibling who kindly let him stay but is in another local authority
  • Will be paying council tax for our address again of course from May onwards

My husband is calling again today as soon as they open, so fingers crossed it was just an oversight / misunderstanding.

School applications for foreign national children and children resident outside England

Advice for state-funded school admission authorities, independent schools, local authorities and parents.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/schools-admissions-applications-from-overseas-children#establishing-home-address

OP posts:
maplesirrup · 02/11/2023 08:20

"after several phone discussions with the School Admissions Office, we were assured our child’s secondary application will be accepted by using our UK address"

@ReturnfromtheStars As a pp said, if you have this in writing it will help you at an appeal.

"However, on 1st November my husband received a phone call stating we have to put our overseas address on the form, and the application is now deemed incorrect and won’t be accepted as an application on time, but instead will be treated as a late application."

The forms usually make it clear that you have to use your current residential address, not an address you plan to move to. If you have a screenshot of the form, showing the wording, it may help.

"I have found a guidance document for Surrey (sadly we don't live in Surrey)"

This won't help. Every area handles these situations differently. You need to use the procedures from your home area.

"Admission authorities cannot, for example:
require the applicant has a permanent home address either in the UK or overseas before processing an application"

This won't help. The local authority have processed your application and found that you have not used your current residential address. Fom their perspective, this is potentially fraudulent, so they have rejected your application and asked you to correct it. They haven't refused to process it.

"If a local authority refuses to co-ordinate an application for a school place from parents currently living in another country but moving or returning to England, an admission authority for the school would have significant difficulty in being able to lawfully apply its admission arrangements."

Again, they have not refused it. They have asked you to correct it. You need to resubmit it using your current address in your home country. They will then process it. When you move, you can update the address.

"Surely, other people move before secondary too? Even if not countries, just counties. If it's a planned move I would assume they apply for school in the new place."

Yes, but they apply using their current address, then update it when they move. My local authority would only accept the new address after contracts are signed.

In your case, if you are moving back to a home you own, is it currently empty or let out? Are you paying council tax?

If I were you, I would phone the local authority for a chat with the admissions team, and ask their advice.

TeenDivided · 02/11/2023 06:41

Do you have anything in writing from them re using your UK address even though you weren't resident? That could help convince them / help at appeal maybe?

Original poster
ReturnfromtheStars · 02/11/2023 03:46

@GeeFunnyBunny they went to school here 2022/2023 and also started the 2023/2024 school year in September, which will run till June (the summer holiday is longer)

Planning to start 2024/2025 in UK, England, when one child will be year 7 which is the first year of secondary in England. I'm not opposed to starting a bit earlier to see friends at the end of year 6 (provided it's even possible to get back into their old primary school), but would ideally like them to finish their current school year properly and move during the holiday.

OP posts:
GeeFunnyBunny · 02/11/2023 03:34

Wait, did your dc only go to school in your home country for 1 year 2022-2023?

Original poster
ReturnfromtheStars · 02/11/2023 03:22

How did it turn out for you, are the kids happy in their new schools? Somerset sounds
lovely, so a great move for the family 🙂

Thanks for the advice about accepting an allocated school, this happened to us for primary, and turned out well in the end: we got a school a bit further away but still accessible by bus and a great school.

It's just that kids are at a bit more mentally fragile age at secondary (sounds weird to say, but I'm a lot more worried about bullying in secondary), but I hope it will turn out well in the end.

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OzziePopPop · 02/11/2023 02:28

Honestly, you can try. We moved into Somerset so things may vary (they absolutely do between areas and counties of the UK/GB) but we absolutely were not allowed to apply till we were in our home and could prove it. Exceptions do apply for people in the forces etc but didn’t apply to us.

Try it, worst they’ll say is no! Also, if you don’t like or want the allocated school, accept anyway! Then go on the waiting list for the school you want. Never decline or you can be left with nothing.

Original poster
ReturnfromtheStars · 02/11/2023 02:13

Sorry forgot to add we are well aware of the normal way of the admission process and are simply trying to get into the catchment school in the usual secondary application process, just with the twist of the child not yet living there.

Surely, other people move before secondary too? Even if not countries, just counties. If it's a planned move I would assume they apply for school in the new place.

OP posts:
Original poster
ReturnfromtheStars · 02/11/2023 02:10

Can I quote the above from gov.uk? It's still only advise, but I like the wording of "the school would have significant difficulty in being able to lawfully apply its admission arrangements."

Is it better to phone or email? We can't make a phone call together as my husband is in the UK, whereas I'm not.

OP posts:
Original poster
ReturnfromtheStars · 02/11/2023 02:03

Even clearer:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/schools-admissions-applications-from-overseas-children

Processing school applications from parents moving to England

Admission authorities cannot, for example:

  • require the applicant has a permanent home address either in the UK or overseas before processing an application

If a local authority refuses to co-ordinate an application for a school place from parents currently living in another country but moving or returning to England, an admission authority for the school would have significant difficulty in being able to lawfully apply its admission arrangements..

Applications in the normal admissions round and late applications

If an application is made from another country, local authorities should consider the application as adequate proof of an intention to move or return to the area and include it within the local authority co-ordinated process.

School applications for foreign national children and children resident outside England

Advice for state-funded school admission authorities, independent schools, local authorities and parents.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/schools-admissions-applications-from-overseas-children

OP posts:
Original poster
ReturnfromtheStars · 02/11/2023 01:56

Thanks @OzziePopPop !

We didn't think we could, until the admissions people told us we actually can, but they are now contradicting themselves. We adjusted our return to UK date based on their advice as we could have returned earlier if needed, although I do beleive it is best for the children to switch schools in September, at the start of the school year.

I have found a guidance document for Surrey (sadly we don't live in Surrey) who describe our exact case on page 4, 4.1/a and again, it seems that we followed correct procedure, although they do say the local authority can decide.

https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/5105/Guidance-on-admission-of-children-from-overseas-V3.pdf

"Applications for admission as part of a normal admissions round must be made to the local authority where the child lives. As children living abroad do not have a home local authority, their parent will not ordinarily be able to apply until the child has returned/arrived in the United Kingdom. However, exceptions may apply and it will be up to each local authority to determine whether or not a family can apply from abroad, in accordance with their policy on applications from children living overseas.
(...)
Satisfactory evidence of a return/arrival to the United Kingdom should include a combination of the following, although this list may not be exhaustive:
• A written statement from the parent(s) of their intention to return to/enter the United Kingdom, giving their reasons and an expected date - we weren't told about this, but easy to produce
• Termination of a work contract abroad
• Sale/notice of rental of property abroad
• Copy of work contract within the United Kingdom - we have this
• Confirmation of study arrangements within the United Kingdom
• Confirmation of travel arrangements - again easy to have, we haven't bough the plane tickets yet but why not"

https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/5105/Guidance-on-admission-of-children-from-overseas-V3.pdf

OP posts:
OzziePopPop · 02/11/2023 01:35

Generally you can’t apply until you’re actually in the country, in your main residence. You then apply and are allocated a school. If you want a particular school you’ll need to look at things like catchment areas and how popular/oversubscribed the school is.