Secondary application from abroad

Yes, school changed leadership, new head was the “IT” teacher at previous job. No experience running a school, was just an inexperienced jerk. Yes, the school was run badly, good staff left in first few months. Child liked it well enough, but my opinion was low. we left that school after 2 years.

it was the process of moving in from overseas that caught us out … we thought we had a place starting on first day, but didn’t, only because local Ed authority was being awkward despite us having a friendly dialogue w them for 6-8 months in advance.

Had similar relocated back to UK.
Visited the school early, met with head teacher. They were saying yes, great see you in September and we did required paperwork.

We hit same roadblock as you with a rejection in the mail to UK address months later from Council Education. However, we had a house in area, paid “second home” council tax, but they didn’t give us a place until we were physically present & needed to start process again. It worked out for us, and we ended up hating the school (a new had a total jerk).

Our experience, Local Ed Authority run by evil parent-hating computer-illiterate work-shy part-time paper-pushers who don’t care a jot about education and are motivated by lunch vouchers, voicemail only, out-of-office auto reply, annual leave and sick days.

The way the system works means that most schools are oversubscribed, i.e. they have more applications than places. However, that doesn't necessarily mean they will fill all places.

In most areas there will be one or more school(s) that don't fill all their places. However, these 'spare' places will only be evenly distributed if all schools are equally popular. Most areas have some schools that are more popular than others, and so the spare places end up being concentrated in the least popular school(s).

In my area, all but one of the secondary schools are usually oversubscribed, meaning that on March 1st all their places are allocated to families who included them on their list of preferences. But there are always people who can't be offered any of their listed schools, so they are allocated places in the 'undersubscribed' school. If that fills up, some families get no offer at all. Between March 1st and Aug 31st there is a "shake down" with many families giving up offers to go private or move away, so everybody eventually gets a place, and all schools are full or nearly full by Sept 1st.

The way the system works means that most schools are oversubscribed, i.e. they have more applications than places. However, that doesn't necessarily mean they will fill all places. If the school you want doesn't fill all places with other applicants, you will get a place regardless of which address the LA use and whether they treat you as a late applicant.

For context, this relates to the period when this cohort were starting primary school: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2012/mar/19/primary-schools-shortage-places-labour

The last two posts are correct. They can increase PAN (i.e. the number of children they are going to admit), but it is too late to reduce it.

I don't think they can reduce the PAN number once published.

Correct. The 2024 PAN is now fixed. It will be stated in the 2024 admissions policy. They can offer more places, but not fewer.

(And if they wanted to reduce it for their 2025 policy they would need to be running a formal consultation within the next few weeks).

If this is a London LA (the op hasn't said whether it is or not), I'd be surprised if 2024 was a "light" year. In my area and many others there is an ongoing bulge transitioning from year 6 to 7 due to high birth rates. 2023 was the peak, but 2024 is still high.

I don't think they can reduce the PAN number once published.

Thanks for explaining both! I wasn't sure if schools were classed as oversubscribed for that year this prematurely but that makes sense

If it isn't, OP will get a place for her child whatever the LA do. However, because of the way the system works, most schools are oversubscribed.

It is a truth universally acknowledged (at least on Mumsnet) that all desired schools are oversubscribed. 🙂

Gotcha! But do we know if this school is oversubscribed?

@user96327888 You are correct that the LA could use a future address but they don't have to. However, there is a misunderstanding in your second point. Oversubscription criteria apply whenever there are more applications than places. They apply to standard applications unless the school is undersubscribed.

Sorry to jump in but I think you're misunderstanding some of the things you're quoting.
I have no experience in this but just reading through as a layman.

However, using current address instead of future address also contradicts government advice at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/schools-admissions-applications-from-overseas-children#establishing-home-addresss** where it is stated, that:*

• Admission authorities could ask prospective movers or returners where they will be living (see paragraph 2.5 of the school admissions code). This might include whether parents:
• own or rent a property in the area to which they intend to return or move

The key word here, to me, is could. They could ask you where you will be living and give examples of where they may reside in the future. You've already informed them of your intentions to move and where you will be living.
I'm unsure how the paragraph is interpreted as using current address is fraudulent.

Secondly,

Finally, in the LA guidance document quoted in your email (link) it is also established on Page 11 that LA will use the address at which the child will live when applying the admission oversubscription criteria, as long as the parent provides some evidence of their intended address. The Page 11 guidance is for Children of UK service personnel and crown servants, which is the same group that is treated the same way as returners to the UK in gov.uk advice at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/schools-admissions-applications-from-overseas-childrenn**.*

You're not applying under oversubsciption criteria, are you? This is just a standard application.
You're also not service personnel.

As I said this is just my interpretation of the text knowing nothing of the process

We applied from overseas & were told to use our overseas address. DC got in anyway.

Sorry, I don't have time to read through all the reply. As far as I know, most of the council required an address proof by early Dec. So your family have to arrive UK by that time then your application should not be considered late.

Indeed, you have applied on time.

This is a real situation from my friend, they relocated from HK to Kingston.

You need to look this up for your county, but I THINK its after the results come out, but double check.

I understand your frustration but there are so many what ifs.
What if your tenants don't move out and you need to start eviction process? Then you have nowhere to return to in the uk.
What if your tenants had a year 6 child and were also using that address for secondary application.

You don't live at your uk address. It is not your home. It is currently somebody else's home.

I don't know the ins and outs of the admissions procedure, and they vary from LA to LA. I do hope it works out in the end for your dc.

The information Commissioner's Office has advice on making a Subject Access Request:

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/preparing-and-submitting-your-subject-access-request/

How to make a subject access request?The easiest way to make a subject access request is using our online service. It takes about 10 minutes. It helps you write your request then sends it to the organisation by email....

@ReturnfromtheStars you should be able to get all the transcripts using a Subject Access Request (SAR). There will be a SAR policy on the LA's website.