Chances of getting into academically selective independent school from state primary

Going to a state primary school won't help, but I know a few parents that moved their kids from private senior schools after GCSE to do A-levels at a good state sixth form, to benefit from the pressure on the top Unis to take more kids from the state sector.

It hugely depends on your child, their current school and the schools you are applying to.

If you are looking at St Albans - academically selective but has a wider range of abilities, in all likelihood you will be fine with a decent state primary, engaged parents and tutoring.

If you are looking at QE Boys/Habs - academically super selective, hundreds of applicants per place (especially for the former because it is state), you need an exceptional child and a lot of intensive work. You would be better off at a prep school where the technique is taught from early on.

I applied for the super selective schools 30+ years ago from a state primary and was rejected by all despite tutoring from Y4/5. My DC are in an academic prep and I can see how I wouldn't have stood a chance when competing with children who are taught like they are - the entire Y4-6 curriculum is tailored towards the entrance exams and various other aspects are subtly taught from pre-prep. Does not vaguely compare to the state school curriculum with a couple of hours tutoring from Y4. Also to keep in mind, many of these prep school kids do tutoring on top of all that school work. Should also note the heads of all the schools are in constant communication so the prep school heads know exactly what the seniors are looking for in the entrance tests.

I would ignore your friend though - prep schools will tell you if your child is not QE material - so it would not be counted as your 'school of choice' if you failed to get a place. With the level of competition for the likes of QE, the most selective of preps would still never guarantee a place so it didn't count in those statistics

And her abilities and dedication...I bet

Hi @Schoolsdilemma123 ! It's perfectly possible to get into a private secondary school from a state primary. My daughter was at a local state primary, a school in special measures. She was offered a place at a leading private school and some other private schools. Our tutor made a big difference.

For a moment I would not even consider sending my son to a school that would base their decision of admission on what primary school the child attended. The same for universities.

My DS also went to St Albans from our local state primary and I would say that any relatively bright child would get in (DS even had a scholarship and he's not exceptional). HABS is rather more selective; DS was offered a place but we rejected it on logistical grounds. We did have a tutor from year 5 as we were also trying, unsuccessfully, for DAO but lots didn't.

100% of them pass the entrance exams to the secondary schools of their choice

This means they all get into a school. 'Their choice' is a phrase private peeps use. It suggests they all get into top senior schools but it actually means they all get into a school the parents choose at the end of the day. And the school they 'choose' is the school they get accepted into.

My child has just started at a private secondary. All the children at the private feeder prep got places, regardless of ability. Only the top ability children outside of the prep got places. There is a wait list of 50. Also, none of the children from outside the private prep made it into the top stream.

Lots of children do this. One of mine and two of my GC.

They don’t look at your primary school.

In general there are a lot of kids in senior private schools are from state primary schools,
range from 10% to 40% in a typical selective private schools in London.

But that doesn't equal to the probability of OP particular DC, there are more factors in play. Since OP just started considering primary school entry I would say it is way too early to know the chance...

I very much doubt that primary school choice is likely to 'swing a place'. (Nor secondary, really, the changes in the last few years are aimed at correcting bias towards privately educated kids).

It wouldn't.

A few years of state schooling might help swing a place at university later on?

I know tons of kids who have gone from state primary schools to selective independent secondary schools. I think some parents of kids at private primary schools are kidding themselves about how "advanced" their children actually are!

Also a MN lurker but thought I could offer some first hand experience. My DS is at St Albans Boys and went there from a local state primary. I would say that around 50% of the intake at 11 is from state schools - it's certainly not a barrier and the school positively encourages it. My impression is that local prep schools encourage entry at 13, presumably to keep them paying the fees there instead of moving on. Most of the intake at 13 is prep. In terms of 100% of prep school children getting the school of their choice - that's probably true, but the school will have advised the parents beforehand on what is the right choice for their child (as it should) - and so some parents will pursue less academic schools.
I wouldn't take too much notice of the numbers applying versus numbers getting in at any of the schools you mention as the same children are chasing the available places - and many will get multiple offers and can only choose one!
Re. going local - my DS definitely benefited from local friendships and I'm glad we made that decision. There are also quite a number of local boys attending St Alban's boys too. Most of the children at his primary school went to the local state secondary schools as St Alban's has some outstanding ones. When we made our decision for primary admission, we weren't thinking about secondary and your choice will likely depend on the standard of the state secondary options you have and the nature of your child. Our DS is happy at St Alban's and it feels like it was the right choice for him.
Re. tutoring, we didn't, but most do. It very much depends on what the child needs and what sort of assessment the school does. St Alban's entrance exam is changing (check the website) and it might change again before your DS takes it. The school discourages tutoring, but the majority of state as well as prep school children have been tutored and I think it's a band wagon thing. Parents think they need to because others are - but there are definitely boys who would have got in without it (and there are probably some who are in academic schools who shouldn't be there because of it!) But a lot of prep is needed - e.g. practice questions and exam technique. State primary schools don't offer any coaching to pass 11+ exams, but the year 6 SATs curriculum does cover most of the content required. Good luck in your decision!

Same with my DCs. Had some tutoring but for exam technique. They'd covered everything they needed in terms of curriculum at their state primary. Got lots of offers as did all their friends also applying to independent schools.
And everyone we knew at Preps also tutored anyway.
Both mine at 'sought after' SW/W London highly selective schools - loads of kids there from state primaries and absolutely no difference in their abilities.

Both my daughters went to the local state primary and both got multiple offers from selective private schools at 11. We’re in West London where the whole private school thing is mad.
the idea that somehow because you’re at a state school (be it at primary or secondary) you are not academically able enough to pass exams whether they be at 11 plus or A levels is crazy.

I have the same experience as Dallas - good state primary to London selective independen (both DC). I don’t think the academic side is so much the issue, as that’s relatively easy to deal with via some tutoring or home prep in Y5.

The difference for us between prep and primary was that we had to do much more of the enrichment stuff, and be available for many more hours, than our friends who had DC in prep. It mean I continued to work part-time, and we used grandparents and other flexible childcare.

It worked for us, because we had that support, and were able to make sure that the DC got swimming lessons, music lessons, sport, drama etc after school and at the weekends. It involved a lot of taking them places and waiting around, and managing clashes and logistics. I preferred having the choice of activities, and that they got to know different groups of children. I also (mostly!) liked spending that time with them, walking to and fro and chatting. But I can see the attraction of a good prep that provides all these things (albeit probably less tailored to your DC’s specific interests) on site, especially for two working parents. Just don’t assume a prep will mean no need to tutor - from the people I know, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Hi @Schoolsdilemma123 we live in Herts, my son goes to a state primary and will be applying for St Albans School next year for 11+ entry in 2025. Unless he has a bad day I am reasonably confident he’ll get in. He has an hour a week of tutoring and we’ll start Atom in addition sometime next year.

I believe at 11+ SAS about half the places go to children from (mainly local) state schools. I can’t remember if this is on their website or I asked on open day but either way what this other mum is telling you is rubbish, at least in relation to SAS.
The other schools you mention should be willing to give you the stats too.

QE is of course a super selective state school rather than an indy.

Prep schools aren’t necessarily filled to the rafters with super bright kids (many are not even academically selective ). The schools may claim that 100% of their kids get in their chosen secondary but this will be because they give a strong steer away from highly academic children entering the exams for the super selective secondary schools.

In addition, many prep schools go up to age 13 so gear their pupils up for y9 entry, rather than Y7. So your son wouldn’t necessarily be competing with them for places

We went to the open days for some prep schools recently, including Habs for boys. We are considering applying to Habs from reception as we suspect it’s less competitive to get in at that age than at 11.

But some of the other prep schools we went to really emphasised that they have a good entrance rate for other private secondary schools, and that they start preparing them for the entrance exams from year 4. I therefore suspect that is a big difference between state or private primary - state won’t have the same focus on the entrance exams.

CAT scores will help you to know whether he's likely to be able to get into St Albans etc in due course. My kids sat them yearly from year 3 but it may be possible to sit them earlier. St Albans wants 120-129 plus (same as Eton) and Habs want 130-139 plus. This is based on info from my sons' school that we were given last year (so could change)

My DC is in Y7 at an academically selective sought-after independent school in SW London (and got 5 other offers). He went to a nurturing non-pushy state primary school a 3 min walk from our house. He had tutoring from start of Y5 and also did Atom from May of Y5.

I would say go for the local school - an easy journey to school and local friends / being part of local community means so much. It is absolutely feasible to get into private secondaries with some work - about 50% of my son's independent school come from state primaries. Also to note that it is not the case that the state kids are behind once they join - he is coming close to top of the class in tests so far.

At our local private school, they can accept 140 children in to Year 7.

If you join the prep school by year 5, then you only need to take the Non Verbal and Verbal tests instead of Maths, English and Science plus NV/V. 95% of the children from the 3 prep schools go to the senior school. The current Year 6 has 96 children in one school, 23 in another and 16 in the other.

If the 95% stat is accurate, 128 children will be going to the seniors from the preps and this would only allow 12 additional children in from outside state schools.

There is a HUGE jump between the numbers in Year 4 (60ish) to year 5 due to this reason.

There will be over 200 children applying for those 12 places so many parents put their children in year Year 5 for this very reason and the school get an additional £30k per child out of your for those two years.