Chances of getting into academically selective independent school from state primary

I presume someone has already mentioned this, but QE is a state school not an independent. Your son would sit the exam & then apply through your local authority.

My son into got all schools pvt or state without any tuitions but with my full support. He cleared Westminster as our first choice but in the end we went for local top grammar school because of train commute.

Can I put my 2p in on this conversation.
We recently moved from overseas, lived in Astralia for 12 years.

However, while we were in Australia, I applied for my daughter for Habs.
She was in a local state school in Australia, and had never had any tutoring whatsoever. Also bearing in mind, the Australian education system has a more relaxed approach to learning, and they're also 6 months behind due to our academic year starting in January rather than Sept.
My daughter was also entering into year 8 - so not your usual entry point.
Habs sent the exam papers to the school in Australia via email, and someone form the school invigilated her. She made it in, and is now thriving at Habs.

I'm not saying the private prep doesn't help, but I'm inclined to believe that entry into a selective school is very much dependent on the child and their natural aptitude. If I'm honest, we had applied to other schools, as we didn't believe out daughter would make it into such a competitive school, because she'd never had to learn in that sort of environment, or where assessments are so vital, such as the 11+ etc, as we didn't have that sort of thing in Australia. So we were all pleasantly surprised. Proud of course, but I am now debating whether putting a child under pressure with the 11+ is really worth it. I have a year 4 boy in a local state school.
Just sharing my experience...

Following this post, having done much research there is no material academic difference between Habs, MT and St Albans. Parents at those schools will say differently. If you are looking for super selective schools then look at the top ten schools such as Westminster, City or St Paul’s.

Actually, I don't think it would be that hard to achieve this figure if they manage parents' expectations and are listened to. If they advise the parents of the less academic kids to apply to non-selective schools which use exams only for setting, and the parents of the brighter kids to apply to schools which require only low pass marks, I don't think it is impossible that 100% would pass. It isn't hard to get into an independent school if you set your sights at a realistic goal.

Now if they were saying 100% got into Eton or Roedean, then I would be sceptical.

@CloudPop , I agree that we should be wary of such '100%' claims.

If your child is bright, does he need a selective indy, or would a non-selective offer him just as much, without the pressure?

You don’t need private school. You need to make sure your dc learn to read, and then read a lot of books. You need to make sure your dc are proficient in maths. In Y4 do some gentle introductions to the sort of material in entrance tests (but not a lot). In Y5 get a tutor or use Atom.

the main thing is how you parent rather than the school you choose. You can help your children learn to read quickly or you can let them go with the flow and just be taught at school. You can give them books or unlimited screen time etc

Nowadays private secondary schools are not such as academic hothouses as they used to be. Many have SEN teachers, and several streams in subjects like maths.

Two of my GC are at a private secondary - a very highly thought of establishment. One has a brain like a planet and got a scholarship, the other passed the entrance exam, but no scholarship - I think he got in by sheer force of personality at the interview!

100% of them pass the entrance exams to the secondary schools of their choice

That's a load of cobblers.

I agree with this. DD was at what is generally considered an all through school, and not a particularly selective one at that, but in Year 5 or Year 6 her friend's parents were advised to look elsewhere from Year 9.

It was upsetting for her family at the time but she is now settled at another school and kids are better off at a school that suits their ability.

We had one at Habs girls (from age 4). Loads of children join from state schools at 11+. We DID decide it might be easier to get them in as young as we could manage it - we had 5 at private schools but that does not mean no one gets in from state at 11. Lots do. St Albans will be easier than Habs.

(I think the post mentioned QE as a private school. It is not. It is a state school , albeit very selective).

The private secondary schools take loads from state as posters above say. Be careful too as they can decide NOT to take kids form the feeder private primaries. I’ve heard of families being told in y5 to make sure they apply to other schools too. A kid at age 4 might not suit an academic school by 11 (or be on course for the grades schools need for their results tables)

I think I would call the secondary schools you have in mind and ask them what percentage of children they take from state primaries. Registrars and admissions people are always happy to chat to potential customers and they will have those figures at hand. You could also ask the head of the state primary you're looking at whether they regularly have children moving on to the secondaries you're interested in.

There's a lot to be said for keeping everything local when they're small – there are a lot of short playdates, birthday parties, and school events in the first few years and it's so much easier if it's all on your doorstep. (Another mum in my child's class had to make 6 trips back and forth to school last Friday as she has three kids and they're each in different after-school clubs and age groups for the school disco!) And if you live close enough to walk, so much the better.

Oh, and I hear that the crowd at the local prep round here is distinctly snootier than at its associated secondary school – partly because they don't offer any bursaries for under 11s; it's solely about the money.

I think this is a really good thread to emphasise that options are open to move between schools at all stages.

Thank you to the OP and to all posters. 😁

It’s not just possible for ‘little geniuses’ to get into top independent schools from state primary. My son goes to one of the most highly selective schools in the country and 50pc of the intake is from state (including him)

It must be remembered that admissions departments are fully aware of the advantages that come with prep schools and so judge those entrants against each other, not against state school pupils (or vice versa). Not in terms of the entrance tests themselves, but in terms of interviews and heads’ references. They will know the state school kids will have had zero help from their schools re 11+ prep.

From what I can tell, this approach is pointless if the primary aim is to increase the chances of getting into a top university.

University admissions applications tend to ask where you spent the majority of your secondary education- in state or private. They are alive to middle class parents gaming the system by switching to state for 6th form! So I’m not sure they get to count you in their state school stats if you were in private education for all but the last 2 years

And increasingly applications are contextual and ask eg whether the student had free school meals, whether they will be the first in their family to go to university, if they’ve been in care, if you live in a deprived postcode, if they’re on free school meals.
If the applicant is at a state school they also look at whether it performs above/at/below average, and whether it has a high proportion of pupils on free school meals. Switching from private to state for 6th form is highly unlikely to help in any of these fronts (unless you go to a state school that is poorly performing and/or has a relatively deprived intake).

Same sentiment from experience.

Oh yes the references- I think a really good state primary reference would surely go a long way as the state school has nothing to prove or gain by getting kids into a selective school. They are likely to be more honest I suspect

Really good post. Thank you. 😁

My DC got a place in a very selective (top 20 in the country) school from a state primary. He had 5 or 6 months of tutoring I think. It’s doable but nothing is guaranteed with or without a private prep school

Really good post. 👌

I had quite a long chat with the Head of Admissions at one of my DCs school whilst he was having his interview. My DCs state primary did do Heads references but she said it really wasn't an issue if they didn't. She also said (slightly off the record- she was leaving...) that some of the pupils from the well known London preps in particular would all come out with the same answers in interviews and would often write the same stories etc. She really did not like over prepped children for interviews. My DS in particular gave some bizarre interview answers but it seemed to do the trick.
They just need to have a bit of think about why they like the school etc, if they have any questions etc.
(She also said Prep school references have a lot less importance than parents think).

It is absolutely possible to get into a top selective independent senior school from a state primary, but only if you understand the process.

Common Entrance (the test that was historically used by independent schools for selection) is now considered a bit out of touch with reality. A lot of independent schools still use common entrance but see it as less important than before, while many have stopped using it entirely for admissions and only use it for setting. And this includes some academically selective schools. I am not suggesting that the academically selective independent schools you are looking at will not require common entrance, but I can almost guarantee that it will not be the only thing they look at.

Much more important to many schools now is the online ISEB common pre-tests, which pupils take in Year 6 or Year 7 depending on the school they are applying to. These are supposedly impossible to prepare for, but I know that DS's prep has specific time allocated in the timetable to help pupils get ready for pre-tests, and I doubt they would do that if they did not see a benefit. I would suggest that as a minimum having sat practice tests must help to get a very stressed 10 or 11 year old understand what they are doing and what is expected of them when in a timed test. The questions tend to be multiple choice verbal and non-verbal reasoning rather than writing lengthy answers in a traditional exam, but I am sure there must be common styles of question that get easier to understand with practice.

Independent schools often place a lot of importance on the interview, which is something anybody can do well at if they are prepared. Again, my DS's prep school has specific sessions on interview technique and all children have practice interviews with the prep school headmaster. Obviously they will still be nervous when they enter a very grand office to speak with a very nice but important looking person, but having experienced this and knowing how to answer key questions must help. Any good independent school will make the interview as stress-free as possible I am sure, but still......

The final key stage of obtaining a place at senior school is the reference from the prep headmaster. While any good headmaster can write an excellent reference, I wonder if an overworked and underpaid head in a state primary will take the same amount of time and care on this reference that she or he doesn't have to write for anyone else, or have the same experience in terms of what does and doesn't work, as the head of an independent prep who knows that these references are not an extra - they are a core part of her or his job.

So all that said, I have no doubt that a little genius can get into a selective independent senior school, but I think going to an independent prep makes it that much easier.

A good prep is in constant contact with senior schools and starts engaging with parents and DCs in Year 4 to prepare them for admissions. DS is in year 5 and last year we were given a pretty clear idea which schools the head thought would be a slam dunk, which he could have a good stab at, and which would be perhaps a reach too far, and what we need to do between now and Year 7.

Good luck whatever you decide!