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“Daily act of communal worship”

33 replies

BCCoach · 26/10/2023 20:45

It was my understanding that all schools in England and Wales were required to hold a daily act of communal worship of a broadly Christian nature by law regardless of whether they were a faith school or community school. DS’s infants and juniors (both CofE) did but his secondary (academy community) does not - they have two assemblies a week neither of which include hymns or prayers.

I have absolutely no problem with this (he only went to CofE for infants and juniors as those are the only schools in the village) but was curious to see whether this was others’ experience. There doesn’t seem to be any mention of it on the recent-ish OFSTED report.

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Flora56 · 28/10/2023 16:19

BCCoach · 28/10/2023 15:17

As has been posted, schools can ignore the requirement completely as it isn’t enforced in any way and apparently the majority of schools do in fact ignore the requirement all together.

I’m just speaking from my own experience of managing the requirement.

gotomomo · 28/10/2023 15:33

At my DD's upper school this consisted of opening a series of classrooms at 8am each morning (they started school at 8.15) with a sign on each of the doors "collective worship" and then a symbol for each religion. The Muslim one was fairly well attended but think the others remained empty

BCCoach · 28/10/2023 15:17

Flora56 · 28/10/2023 14:09

Schools can opt out of the ‘broadly Christian’ worship if it doesn’t reflect their school community. It’s called a determination.

As has been posted, schools can ignore the requirement completely as it isn’t enforced in any way and apparently the majority of schools do in fact ignore the requirement all together.

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Flora56 · 28/10/2023 14:09

Schools can opt out of the ‘broadly Christian’ worship if it doesn’t reflect their school community. It’s called a determination.

trippinthru · 28/10/2023 14:00

"I personally think it’s an outdated requirement not reflective of Britain in 2023 (are we a broadly Christian country? I literally don’t know a single person my age who goes to church regularly, the only people I know who do are my PIL in their 60s - and they’re amongst the younguns at their church!!) I would prefer it scrapped"

Yep, plenty of people would agree with you @modgepodge , but it won't happen while we have unelected bishops and other traditionalists in the House of Lords. There have been attempts to scrap it, most recently in 2021, but they're always out-voted.

You can read the 2021 House of Lords debate here. The bill got some support, but not enough:
https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2021-09-10/debates/1F8305FD-63BA-4E38-99C4-774928DED5AA/Education(Assemblies)Bill(HL)

trippinthru · 28/10/2023 13:52

Maddy70 · 28/10/2023 13:36

No. It doesn't have to be religious. It can be things like "word of day " kindness or reflection etc

Courage ...an assembly about the Olympics etc.

As it isn't inspected by Ofsted, schools can, and do, interpret it however they like or ignore it completely. But the official guidance (linked in my pp) says that it should be "concerned with reverence or veneration paid to a divine being or power."

“Daily act of communal worship”
Maddy70 · 28/10/2023 13:36

No. It doesn't have to be religious. It can be things like "word of day " kindness or reflection etc

Courage ...an assembly about the Olympics etc.

modgepodge · 28/10/2023 13:20

trippinthru · 27/10/2023 06:26

At primary school it's traditionally done in a daily or weekly "assembly" led by the Headteacher, who leads a prayer (all children trained to put hands together, heads bowed and eyes closed), and hymns are sung. Some schools might have a link with a local vicar who leads it instead. Secondary schools are usually too big and busy for regular traditional assemblies. The Head (or vicar) may broadcast via screens in the classroom. But it's obviously much more difficult to expect secondary school kids to comply with the "hands together, heads bowed" requirement, or join in with singing hymns, so most schools don't bother

At my Catholic secondary school in the 1980s each lesson started and ended with a prayer, led by the subject teacher. Not sure if that still happens - I expect they would struggle to recruit teachers in every subject if they also needed to be willing to lead prayers.

I’ve worked in 4 non faith primary schools and none have trained children to do hands together and eyes closed (as I remember being taught at my c of e in the 90s!) The exact opposite in fact - the teacher leading the prayer will say ‘if you wish to make my prayer your own please say amen’ or similar, absolutely no expectation that everyone joins in at all. Majority of kids and staff do not, particularly in KS2.

And in none of those 4 schools was such a thing anywhere near daily. Once a week perhaps. My current school…harvest, Christmas, maybe one other time when a vicar consists. That’s it for the year.

I personally think it’s an outdated requirement not reflective of Britain in 2023 (are we a broadly Christian country? I literally don’t know a single person my age who goes to church regularly, the only people I know who do are my PIL in their 60s - and they’re amongst the younguns at their church!!) I would prefer it scrapped.

Boomboom22 · 28/10/2023 13:17

Oh and food bank collections for harvest festival etc count I'd say.

Boomboom22 · 28/10/2023 13:16

Yes I think schools take broadly Christian character to mean uk values and law. Worship is never included, respect of beliefs, multiculturalism and tolerance yes. Always with the caveat some people believe...

The last 2 secondaries I've worked at take 6th form to Carol services (optional but encouraged) but wouldn't dream of taking the Yr 7 to 11.

WeWereInParis · 28/10/2023 13:13

So every assembly pshe etc counts.

That seems an extremely broad definition of "worship" though. I can see how it can come under "Christian values", but it's not worship is it?

I mean, I'd happily have this requirement removed. It seems ridiculous, and in any case appears to be widely ignored anyway. I'm just interested in how broad the definition seems to be.

Boomboom22 · 28/10/2023 12:57

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This. So every assembly pshe etc counts.

Balloty · 28/10/2023 11:25

Interesting....

My child is in year 6 of a Church of England school and has recently asked if he could be removed to just read when they have the church services and collective worships.

Some children don't get to go if they are Muslim /Sikh as are some children with special needs who can not sit still for the long periods of time.

My child has started saying how concerned he is how fanatical some religious people can be, given current world events.

Can I request an opt out? Can I request he be allowed to read quietly or do some self directed study instead.

The school may get a bit grumpy, but can they bring it up in end of year reports?

BCCoach · 27/10/2023 12:59

trippinthru · 26/10/2023 21:55

There are plenty of people who would like it to be, but if it was, there would be a backlash. Currently there is a convenient balance - schools that don't want to do it can ignore it rather than feeling any need to request an "opt out" from the Sacre, and it also means that very few families feel any need to opt their children out of taking part. This means Church leaders can say "Only a tiny number of schools/parents opt out, therefore the policy is fine as it is". While the policy is in place, school leaders that do want Collective Worship can use it to back up their position. So everyone is happy. 🙂

A brilliant and very British compromise 😁

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Etherealcelestialbeing · 27/10/2023 09:57

In the last 10 years in primary it has been 'covered' by 2 or 3 weekly assemblies and class based assemblies'. In reality this means the head/deputy talks about school values (which are broadly linked to Christian/british values of respect, tolerance etc) then leads a very short prayer which is optional for children and staff.

Although ofsted are not inspecting the collective worship per se, all recent inspections I have heard of have had quite a focus on pupils moral, social, spiritual and wider world knowledge. So looking at RE, PSHE, history, geography and broader pupil experiences.

FourChimneys · 27/10/2023 09:00

The definition is, quite rightly, very broad. Any overtly Christian worship discriminates against pupils and staff of other faiths or none, unless there is a comprehensive scheme of celebrating other faiths and beliefs as equals, including Humanism and Aetheism.

Good behaviour, kindness, fair play, respect etc are all suitable topics for form time or assembly. No need to have religion in schools at all actually.

Longma · 27/10/2023 08:43

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trippinthru · 27/10/2023 08:36

BCCoach · 27/10/2023 08:14

It’s not, and registration is at the beginning of each lesson anyway. If you read the link that a PP posted it turns out that OFSTED no longer enforce the requirement and over 60% of schools don’t bother any more - clearly ours is one of them.

It was over 60% in 2004, so will be many more now that it is no longer inspected. Many teachers have never experienced it, and would shout loudly if it was ever re-enforced.

BCCoach · 27/10/2023 08:14

DanceMumTaxi · 26/10/2023 22:07

It’ll be done during registration time.

It’s not, and registration is at the beginning of each lesson anyway. If you read the link that a PP posted it turns out that OFSTED no longer enforce the requirement and over 60% of schools don’t bother any more - clearly ours is one of them.

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BCCoach · 27/10/2023 08:11

WeWereInParis · 26/10/2023 22:05

As far as I'm aware my DD's primary school doesn't do anything that could be considered as communal worship that is broadly Christian.

Out of interest OP, what did your son's infant and junior school do that covered this?

Hymns and prayers every day, and the vicar in to lead a service once a week. Standard CofE village infants and juniors.

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trippinthru · 27/10/2023 06:26

WeWereInParis · 26/10/2023 22:22

But what does it actually consist of? I'm sure I didn't do anything at my primary school that would have counted. And definitely not at secondary school.
Hymns once a week in primary school I guess, but nothing daily.

At primary school it's traditionally done in a daily or weekly "assembly" led by the Headteacher, who leads a prayer (all children trained to put hands together, heads bowed and eyes closed), and hymns are sung. Some schools might have a link with a local vicar who leads it instead. Secondary schools are usually too big and busy for regular traditional assemblies. The Head (or vicar) may broadcast via screens in the classroom. But it's obviously much more difficult to expect secondary school kids to comply with the "hands together, heads bowed" requirement, or join in with singing hymns, so most schools don't bother

At my Catholic secondary school in the 1980s each lesson started and ended with a prayer, led by the subject teacher. Not sure if that still happens - I expect they would struggle to recruit teachers in every subject if they also needed to be willing to lead prayers.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 26/10/2023 22:23

Faith schools that aren't Christian can replace the 'broadly Christian' with their own faith.

Otherwise, most secondary schools just ignore it and instead cover PHSE type stuff in assemblies and tutor groups.

A lot of primaries also go for broad 'being nice to each other' messages in lieu of religion which kind of ticks the box.

Where it can be a problem is when you sign up for the non-denominational primary as opposed to the faith schools and then you get a religious headteacher arrive. You can end up with non-faith schools being considerably more religious than the local CofE.

WeWereInParis · 26/10/2023 22:22

DanceMumTaxi · 26/10/2023 22:07

It’ll be done during registration time.

But what does it actually consist of? I'm sure I didn't do anything at my primary school that would have counted. And definitely not at secondary school.
Hymns once a week in primary school I guess, but nothing daily.

trippinthru · 26/10/2023 22:13

DanceMumTaxi · 26/10/2023 22:07

It’ll be done during registration time.

Teachers can't be required to do this if they don't want to. It may happen in most faith schools, but most non-faith schools don't do it. Ofsted stopped inspecting it because the majority of secondary schools were non-compliant. Many primaries don't do it either.