Grey Coat Hospital School Language Spaces

Oh no, sorry to hear.
My daughter talked about something being wrong with how the letters were printed too! Apparently a few of them had trouble making sense of what was written.

No good news for us unfortunately! Not surprised though as DD said she had trouble reading the test (the print was bad or something?) and had trouble telling the letters apart. She said she asked the proctor in the room about it and she said that was just how it was. Although she’s quite good with languages and the type of stuff on the test, I was pretty pessimistic after that!

Hope you get better news 👍

Maybe ours is on the way then.

I hope you had good news x

I received a letter by post yesterday.

To those who sat the language aptitude test on 15 October, have you received the result yet?

I would have thought innate verbal reasoning ability has something to do with it?

Ps. Any girl who is trilingual by 11 might be brighter than you think!

Hi Mamas. I can only speak of my own experience (my daughter was monolingual). Many of the girls who got in via the language places were bilingual - but that’s pretty normal in an inner London school, lots of girls are (and the school might encourage them to do a gcse in those languages early). My honest advice is apply for the school by whichever route, the catchment comes from all over London, don’t worry too much about the published catchment data. What do you have to lose?

Hello @Londoneer, thank you very much for all the insight about the language test and what the language scholars' life is like once they've been accepted.
In your experience, were most of the girls who got a language place bilingual or not? I'm starting to wonder whether the test works more like an IQ test. My daughter is smart but she's not the brightest, so I don't think she'd score at the top 15. She's also at a state school that's not academically very demanding.
She's trilingual (English-French-Portuguese). Her French and Portuguese are native level, but she only reads and writes in French, not in Portuguese. I keep reading that speaking other languages doesn't give an advantage, but I was wondering how that translates in actual test results.

Hi. No problem, it’s literally an ‘alien’ (read:made up language). They have to do a written exam paper and identify syntax and patterns etc. The best preparation I can recommend is to learn a completely new language on Duolingo as a game, and that’s about the level she’s looking at. I will say many of them came out saying they ‘really enjoyed it’ so the very best thing you can do is probably to relax her and not put any pressure on her - she’ll perform better. I said it was unlikely she’s be allocated this school but if she was, this test would put her in the right sets rather than tell her it was an entrance exam.

Hello, thanks so much for your helpful clarification @Londoneer . We attend a CofE church but live far away from the school, so will be applying for a language place in hopes it helps our daughter get placed.

I know the school does not provide much information about the format of this exam, so curious if your daughter can provide any insight? Is it all written work or is there any element of listening / sound? Is there any part of phonetics work? I also understand language aptitude test can be similar to translating an alien language to English. Any tips on format that you can provide would be great and really address her anxiety around the exam format. Thank you!

I was referring to the language test, the topic of this thread. The other two schools also have aptitude tests (in different subjects) which she also took. I am familiar with the purpose of banding tests.

Are you referring to the language test or the banding test? I assume you mean the banding test since all three of the schools you mention use a banding test, in which case you didn’t tell your daughter a white lie. The banding test isn’t an entrance exam that they either pass or fail - it simply exists so that the school can select a mixed ability intake.

It may or may not be your preference but it was important for me that the only person stressed about these exams was me, not her. I told her a white lie and said all of the aptitude tests (Grey coats, Marylebone + Camden) were just to put them in the right class IF they were allocated that school. They had nothing to do with actually getting her a place (so I said). Perhaps that’s why she was so relaxed on the exam day - she said it was ‘fun’. Who knows, perhaps that gave her a mental edge over some other stressed mite? They’re 10 when they take the exam, the stress shouldn’t touch them. I know it’s hard, as it can feel gladiatorial out there but please keep your little 10 year olds stress free. It’ll come to them soon enough.

My DD also went to a state primary where most pupils were learning English as a second language. Don’t worry, it’s aptitude not skill. In practical terms, that means grasping the mechanics of a made up language. If you haven’t already, download her Duolingo as a game. The concepts of different endings or gender, even at very basic level, will help her. Girls come from quite far away so don’t worry about that.

She's fine at the speaking part... learned 30 pages of German opera off by heart in a weekend, and likes Duolingo... but she can't spell in English let alone Spanish or French!

And agree Music and Maths are very closely linked too.

I'm good at languages (took 3 for GCSE and speak another 2 fluently) but hopeless at Maths and Music. I've sat in on enough music and composition classes to feel as if I am watching people "speak" an alien language. I'd say 90% of the people DD works with are also dyslexic and they all avoid sheet music. It's definitely more a case of different wiring rather than being 'bad' at things - sadly the world of formal education tends to have picked a path that isn't suited to a large number of people.

@Araminta1003 Yes. She got 140/141 in the Bucks test back in the day. Not that her school thought she was bright. DD was also decent enough at music. She sight reads for her choir now. It’s just hugely difficult to work out what they can do when they haven’t had a chance. If she has sc, they will have a chance! Not everyone can do MFLs at a grammar school either. Even some high scoring dc run a mile.

My DD does (very minimal) Spanish at her primary. However, she really seems to have a knack for it and is very interested in studying languages (does multiple in Duolingo, etc.). She's generally bright as well, so it seems like it's worth a shot to give it a go. Her sister is also bright, but I wouldn't say she has a particular knack or interest in languages, so I wouldn't put her forward for the test.

@TizerorFizz - did your DD score very highly on verbal reasoning type tests?

@OhCrumbsWhereNow - it is frustrating. If your DD is that able at Music and has such an excellent aural memory, I bet she could learn languages easily, just by ear rather than having to write stuff down. So she could learn to speak several languages. It just so happens that our MML testing is mainly writing based. In my opinion, Music is also a form of language and so is Maths.

Let’s hope that in the future the technological advances will be such that they can understand the workings of different types of brain and that the education is then tailored to the correct learning style for that type of brain.

@Araminta1003 DH is a civil and structural engineer and I failed French O level twice. We would not have prepped in the way you suggest as we are both MFL illiterates. Sadly. It seems you have to gear up for this. I did know DD could mimic language (American!) but we never thought for a minute she should do MFLs at uni or now be a barrister. I guess I was just interested in why people like us might even think of MFL. DH would have thought she would be better at maths! I suspect you are right about bi lingual dc who don’t get screened out of anything.

That's really interesting. I have often wondered if she'd be better at something pictographic.

But DD does Music very seriously and finds it impossible to read sheet music at speed and so has to do it all by ear. So I suspect if notation is a problem then Mandarin may fall into that.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow - I have a close friends with a very dyslexic child who is acing Mandarin! I think the pictographic language really helps.

The language aptitude tests are used in the Security Services. They must work.

@TizerorFizz - well these days it is easier. You could easily sign your DC up to a DuoLingo trial and see if they like it? Then get them to practise a cross section of different languages from Mandarin, to German, to Russian, French etc.

I knew my DC would be good at languages because I did MML before doing Law. And their brains are like mine - very good memory, natural verbal reasoning and logic aptitude, great aural skills (better than mine because all do music to a high level). They could just do Latin as well. However, they are also good at Maths at the early stages up to A level (all of them). Those who were not perfect at non verbal then stagnate at a certain point in Maths.

The question is not just are they naturally good at it. The question is more are they going to be passionate about it and want to do it long term. Especially in this country, MML is not properly emphasised in the education system.

So if I were a parent passionate about MML and on the Victoria train line, yes I would do it if I had a bright child who is a keen reader, likes words etc and can spot patterns easily.

What I do not know is if most of those places end up going to bilingual children as they are more likely to have the natural aptitude, having been exposed from birth. The state schools won’t be allowed to test for acquired knowledge just like Wilsons cannot test based on those who have already passed their Grade 8 age 10. However, whether those bilingual kids and Grade 8s also have the natural aptitude - probably more likely. Especially on the music front because children tend to do what they are naturally good at.

Knowing lots of kids at GCH, they were entered for the test as a kind of lottery ticket as if you get one of the aptitude places then it bypasses the church attendance and distance criteria.

We considered it for DD - who is severely dyslexic to the point that she dropped Languages at the end of Y8 - on the basis that she's extremely good at pattern recognition in CAT tests and so might actually score well in something like this which doesn't require any actual MFL knowledge.

In the end we didn't do it because I was concerned that if she got a place that way then they might expect her to take languages for GCSE and I already knew that was going to be an issue!

@reabies How did your parents decide to enter you for the test? That’s what I’m asking. Why did they think you were suitable? Had you previous exposure to another language?

Most tests I’ve seen are for music, art, sport, drama, etc. All attributes a child has demonstrated to make parents think an additional test or evaluation is worth it. If you simply don’t know dc has a MFL aptitude, why would you apply for the test?