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Original poster

Anyone get their child out of playing rugby? (head injury concern)

145 replies

BarqsHasBite · 15/10/2023 22:52

Just that really - am determined that when my son moves to secondary (we are hoping to send him to an independent school) that he does not play any contact rugby, or head the ball in football though that’s less of an issue as he can just not head when he’s playing.

Has anyone tried to get their child out of playing rugby for the same reason? I’m sure someone told me that some schools have it in the parental contract that the boys will play rugby and it’s a condition of accepting a place at the school 😱

If I get pushback am hoping to find a neurologist to advise against playing rugby - is the school really going to insist on going against medical advice?
But interested to know if anyone has any experience of this.

OP posts:
PuttingDownRoots · 16/10/2023 10:11

DH coaches rugby and has always said its inexperienced players you need to be wary of. Playing with people who don't want to play does seem an extra danger.

One of my DDs plays for a club. The other hates the idea of it although enjoyed tag at primary school. It should be a choice for Contact (and not just in rugby!) and make sure everyone knows what they are doing.

anunlikelyseahorse · 16/10/2023 10:07

chickenpieandchips · 16/10/2023 09:45

It was more than irony. The OP could do all she can to get her son out of rugby and then he'll have a fall in the playground or something the next week. Where do you stop. As someone says earlier we are mostly all happy to drive a car.
As for concussion now there are very strict protocols in place. It's generally not the first hit, it's a hit on a hit that causes a problem.
And mouthguards should always be worn in contact rugby.
Both my kids love rugby. We've had broken bones, concussions, but the joy they've got from it both on and off the pitch makes up for the small risk of anything long term happening.

Do broken bones not bother you then?
One of my first assignments as AHP was working in a head injury unit I'll never forget the 14 year old whose life changed for ever because of a bloody rugby match, imagine having a child doing well academically being left with life long injuries meaning he'll never walk, talk or eat independently again. None of my medical colleagues support contact rugby as a game for under 16s, and two of the neurologists I worked with wanted it banned altogether.
Tag rugby is a much safer alternative, and the kids get to learn the rules of the game, without the risk of significant injury. Of course any sport has a slight risk to it, but rugby is high risk.
Ds's school don't play contact rugby, I think most state schools don't anymore as they're worried about litigation, or maybe they just care more about the kids in their charge?
Ask most medics and I think you'll find the vast majority would be against contact rugby.
Also we know statistically that young male drivers are at the greatest risk of injuries or death, why do you think the insurance is so high for this group? Unfortunately driving tends to be a necessity. It's ridiculous to try and defend rugby by saying "what about getting in a car".
I say this as an All Blacks supporter, but post 16, not younger and at that age the young person can make an informed decision and way up the risks.

Sybill · 16/10/2023 10:06

My son goes to a very traditional and long-standing rugby school and there is zero pressure there to play full contact. Lots of other options (including sevens, tag and other sports) and never any need to explain reasoning for it. You won’t be the first to ask so the school will probably have options available that don’t need any sort of medical justification etc. Just have a chat with the school and take from there

Original poster
BarqsHasBite · 16/10/2023 10:00

Also, the fact that strict concussion protocols have been introduced makes me more alarmed rather than less! It sounds like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, and just highlights how dangerous rugby is.

OP posts:
Original poster
BarqsHasBite · 16/10/2023 09:59

Thank you @Londonlondon4 and @EctopicSpleen for that helpful information which I will save to raise with the school if needed. I think it is worth reposting the BMJ summary, particularly for those saying rugby is no more risky than other football/cricket/driving a car etc

Tackle and scrum should be banned in school rugby, argue expert
Tackle and scrum should be banned in school rugby, argue experts in The BMJ today.Allyson Pollock and Graham Kirkwood at Newcastle University, say the evidence shows that collision sports, such as youth rugby, carry high rates of injury – and they call on the government to “put the interests of the child before the interests of corporate professional rugby unions” and remove the tackle and other forms of harmful contact from the school game.Rugby union and rugby league are the most commonly played collision sports in the physical education curriculum of schools in England.A recent evidence review of youth sports found that rugby, ice-hockey and American football had the highest concussion rates in children. Other studies show that rugby related injury emergency department attendances in the US are on the rise, in particular head and face injuries, which make up more than a third of injuries.Head injury is associated with an increased risk of dementia and Alzheimer’s disease, say the authors, adding to existing evidence that head injury may lead to neurodegenerative diseases, for example Parkinson’s disease.Furthermore, a history of concussion is associated with a lowering of a person’s life chances across a range of social and educational measures, as well as an increase in violent behaviour and violent injury in adolescents.Rule changes in collision sports can make a difference, they write. For example, Canada’s ban on ‘body-checking’ (intentional body contact) in under 13s ice-hockey led to a reduction in concussion risk.However, they point out that evidence for other strategies to reduce concussion risk in sport including the wearing of protective equipment such as mouthguards is weak. And in the UK, teacher training in the skills of rugby are lacking as is concussion awareness training.In July 2016 the four UK chief medical officers (CMOs) rejected the call for a ban on tackling in youth rugby, citing a report which claimed rugby was no more injury prone than other sports.But Pollock and Kirkwood argue that, under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Article 19), “governments have a duty to protect children from risks of injury and to ensure the safety of children, which is why we are calling on CMOs to act now.”

OP posts:
Mum1976Mum · 16/10/2023 09:55

Im worried about this when my DS follows his sister to independent school next year. One of the firth formers got a head injury last week in rugby and went briefly blind! I was shocked but the rugby mums seems to take this in their stride. There’s boys in A&E every week after matches.

1stworldissues · 16/10/2023 09:53

My son is in the rugby team despite dislocating his collar bone last year.. why? Because he loves it

Rules have changed this year a lot though so it's safer

EctopicSpleen · 16/10/2023 09:50

The key facts are:

  1. Rugby injuries are more common among school-age players than in adults.
  2. Concussion is the most common injury
  3. Studies have found a "high rate of severe injury"; one source states the risk of serious injury is around 17% per season played.
  4. there have been numerous cases of death and life-changing injury, including catastrophic spinal injuries, in school rugby (evidence below).
  5. At least 70 medical experts in the UK have called for contact rugby in schools to be banned. The experts included those running the spinal units treating the injuries.
  6. Employees of World Rugby and other Rugby professional organisations have waged a misinformation campaign to muddy the waters, in much the same way that employees of big tobacco did in earlier decades.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/mar/02/uk-health-experts-call-for-ban-on-tackling-in-school-rugby

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/school-rugby-forwards-shoulder-the-most-injuries-98dvkn7hg

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/13/death-of-a-schoolboy-ben-robinson-concussion-rugby-union

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/south-african-schoolboy-player-dies-following-head-injury/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6027683/Boy-15-suffers-spinal-injury-Brisbanes-elite-Nudgee-College.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5981939/Son-footy-player-rushed-hospital-spinal-surgery-scrum-collapse-rugby-match.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35636594

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2023/01/26/report-finds-concussion-most-common-injury-in-ail-and-schoolboy-senior-cup/

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1113?ijkey=de88a9930a4d70366216bd8c02fab1c13b0fc3ab&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tackling-Rugby-Allyson-M-Pollock/dp/1781686025

chickenpieandchips · 16/10/2023 09:45

It was more than irony. The OP could do all she can to get her son out of rugby and then he'll have a fall in the playground or something the next week. Where do you stop. As someone says earlier we are mostly all happy to drive a car.
As for concussion now there are very strict protocols in place. It's generally not the first hit, it's a hit on a hit that causes a problem.
And mouthguards should always be worn in contact rugby.
Both my kids love rugby. We've had broken bones, concussions, but the joy they've got from it both on and off the pitch makes up for the small risk of anything long term happening.

jays · 16/10/2023 09:36

I kicked up hell when my son was in primary school and an outside group (council approved) were brought in to do a once a week 12 week block of rugby. I was a parent helper at the time and it wasn’t touch rugby it was full contact. So many of the kids were scared of having to basically run into each other (that’s how injuries happen) no mouth guards, no allowances made if you were small and didn’t want to run into a much bigger child who wasn’t going to get hurt. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing… I’d love to have seen the teachers forced to do that! Anyway, I phoned the head of education in the area and kicked up hell, turns out she was completely unaware of the fact that it wasn’t ‘touch’ rugby they were playing and it was changed to touch after that. I don’t care if it pissed anyone off at all… if you want your child to play full contact rugby or your child does… on you go, join a club, do an after school club, but no way on earth is it ok for a full contact sport to be mandatory. My son is a musician, wasn’t having it. Had a boy fracture his collar bone in my friends son’s school playing mandatory rugby that he didn’t want to play. It’s unacceptable. And before anyone says, yes you can get injuries playing any sport, but not all sports require that level of extreme physical contact. I’ll never forget watching those kids genuinely terrified at having to run into each other, there was obviously the group of kids who were loving it (the much bigger, more boisterous ones) and good for them, rugby could have been a great fit for them as a sport , but not for the others. Teachers were oblivious to how upset the kids were, I was very disappointed that they sat back like that, I couldn’t. Rugby shouldn’t be mandatory to anyone! Boxing isn’t!

SoupDragon · 16/10/2023 09:29

Setyoufree · 16/10/2023 07:52

Yes head injuries are a risk at professional level. Nothing like that at school level. My personal experience with a club rugby playing child who's been playing contact for several seasons now, is that there's never been so much as an ambulance called across all the kids age groups, let alone air ambulance. Also, rugby is a lot safer for kids now than it was a generation ago due to rule changes by the RFU.

Now, the football club over the road is a different matter by the way. Anecdotally, there's where all the broken legs and arms have come from in my children's classes.....

As others say, depends on the school. If it's an important sport to the school I think you'll make his life very hard. And there's been no discussion of all the benefits of rugby, of which there's many.

My concern actually would be, if they're teaching rugby they need to be teaching it properly. If it's a school that's really into it, they will be. If they dabble, I personally think that's where the risk is.

My personal experience with a club rugby playing child who's been playing contact for several seasons now, is that there's never been so much as an ambulance called across all the kids age groups, let alone air ambulance.

I think this is fairly unusual. Both my DSs played rugby at club and school (1st team) from 6 to 18. It was scary. They had one broken arm and a bad concussion between them and I saw a couple of broken legs and a few ambulances over the years - there was always a paramedic car at the school matches.

Yes, it is a rough game. I think you can avoid it by being shit and not trying and thus always being in the bottom group at school.

I think the brain damage/dementia is from the regularity that professional players get hit. I also think that there are for more checks in place now. There were very clear concussion guidelines put in place during my DSs' playing years and it got even more strict over the years. There is more care in place now.

Lots of sports are dangerous and rugby does look brutal. In fact I said this to DS1 only yesterday whilst he was watching the England v Fiji game. He pointed out that there are strict rules with sanctions for safety reasons and it actually looks worse than it is as it isn't the free for all it appears to be.

BodenCardiganNot · 16/10/2023 09:20

*@chickenpieandchips ·

Our friend stopped playing rugby so he wouldn't be injured for the cricket season.
Within 2 weeks he was out of cricket for a month due to a cricket injury.*

Was that a head injury from cricket? If you read the op's post again you will see she specifically talks about head injuries.

Blabla81 · 16/10/2023 09:20

OneFrenchEgg · 16/10/2023 08:30

Was that in Cambridge? I thought he had a heart attack while on the pitch? Tragic, but rugby related?

Show quote history

In Wisbech Cambridgeshire. I’m not sure exactly - I’ve heard he went into cardiac arrest after being tackled, so unclear at the moment.

SheilaFentiman · 16/10/2023 08:54

You will not be “that parent” for asking, and you may well find that it is only touch rugby in year 7 etc, and you can get comfortable with that.

I don’t see what good a private neurologist would do you, if there is nothing specifically wrong with your son that makes him more vulnerable to head injury? All they could write is that rugby has risks of head injury and the parents wish to avoid this. Couldn’t you write that instead?

androidnotapple · 16/10/2023 08:48

Entirely agree with you. lots of schools have moved away from making it compulsory. Make sure he's good at another sport to do instead!

crumblingschools · 16/10/2023 08:40

My DS couldn’t play for medical reasons and he never got bullied. One of his friends always scheduled his music lessons to clash with rugby practice.

OneFrenchEgg · 16/10/2023 08:30

ShowOfHands · 15/10/2023 23:14

A young Dad in his 20s died locally this weekend. It was following a tackle during a rugby match.

I said to DH earlier that there's no way I'd ever let my DS play. DH, his Dad and siblings all played/still play. His dsis played for the country. She and bil have both had surgery following injuries. SIL's dp was knocked unconscious playing just a couple of weeks ago. I hate the sport.

Was that in Cambridge? I thought he had a heart attack while on the pitch? Tragic, but rugby related?

chickenpieandchips · 16/10/2023 08:28

Our friend stopped playing rugby so he wouldn't be injured for the cricket season.
Within 2 weeks he was out of cricket for a month due to a cricket injury.
Kids get injured playing all sports. Where do you draw the line?
Do you have a trampoline...??? These are one if the list dangerous things out there. Both my kids play rugby (boy and girl) but my DH refused a trampoline in the garden.

GrazingSheep · 16/10/2023 08:14

My next door neighbour’s 12 year old has had tinnitus since a head injury incurred at a rugby match a year ago. Drives him mad.

Laboheme78 · 16/10/2023 08:12

My son is at an independent secondary. I find it baffling that in this day and age it remains one of the key school sports. However from what I can see there is absolutely no pressure on the boys to play, other than from their peers. Some boys just “don’t play rugby” but I have to say that the “sporty” ones mostly do. I have given my son the choice to play, but have asked that he remains in the second team as the first team is made up of boys who play outside of school also whereas my son literally just plays in the autumn term, so I don’t think he has the same experience level even though he’s a sporty kid. I really wish the schools could just find something else tbh. It’s bizarre. It also really pisses me off that other parents seem so ambivalent about it.

Setyoufree · 16/10/2023 08:08

That was re. Girls rugby at school btw

Setyoufree · 16/10/2023 08:06

Great news, my daughter would be thrilled to do that rather than netball!

Sandpitnotmoshpit · 16/10/2023 07:59

Yep, if he's not sporty it might be entirely avoidable after the first half term when they probably won't do contact anyway. He will have a choice. I would really ask what they actually do with them in rugby in the beginning of Year 7 before removing him as as PP have suggested, kids can be unpleasant about this sort of thing.

its like any sport really - at the school I currently work at the main sport is netball. They have trials at the beginning of the year where about 3/4 of the kids trial and get put in some sort of squad. The rest of them don't try out and during their games afternoon they do something other than netball. And during PE lessons they do a rotation of sports which doesn't include the main school sport anyway. I think you just need a chat with the head of PE/games about how it works.

PuttingDownRoots · 16/10/2023 07:55

A note for those who feel strongly...

Girls rugby in lessons is becoming more common. All my local schools play it. So you may want to check for your daughters as well.

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