GCSE "compulsory" subject. DS doesn't want to do it.

What doors is not doing French going to close if the child has no interest in French?!

This thread scares me. My DC is in yr9. Hates French, is pretty bad at it and can't wait to drop it. If his school are forced to go the Ebacc route then he'll most certainly fail one of his GCSEs plus miss out on doing a subject that he likes and is good at.

I think one modern foreign language at GCSE is on the national curriculum, isn't it?

I have two children coders in their early 20s earning more money on their first day after graduating than I have earnt in my whole career as a teacher!

Neither ever did any computer science or ICT at GCSE or before, they are physics graduates

@Lamelie Don’t do GCSE language= no A Level language, no getting by skills travelling there, no ebac. Fewer opportunities to pick up a language via short course at university. Lots of aptitude tests for careers are vocabulary based, so any knowledge of any language puts you at an advantage.
Don’t do GCSE computing = nothing closed to you. You can still do A Level computing and onwards for a career in computing or coding.

🤣🤣🤣but he's not going to do French a-level. He's going to do subjects that enable him to get into CompSci which will be maths, further maths, CompSci, physics

I think the point about further education access is important to remember.

To attend any university in Ireland, you must have a modern language GCSE.

@TrailingLoellia @Lamelie
I know that careers in computing coding etc. are little to do with what’s covered in GCSE computing. The young graduates I know in tech and coding on £50,000/ year (not mine, this isn’t a brag) did broad GCSEs including languages, then Maths/ economics degrees. You know those threads on private schooling and middle class soft skills? This thread encapsulates it.

That is so odd because usually coders today have computer science degrees not economics or maths degrees. Some coders did have math degrees, but they are not young graduates anymore, they are in their late 30s/40s.

@Lamelie has no idea what they are talking about. I don't think they know what CompSci is 🫣

It is not a "timetabling" issue, it is a staffing issue - the school makes the offer it can staff. All out students now take a language, because we don't have the staff to offer triple science

@Lamelie And you could learn those skills in an afternoon. We all use IT.
OP if he wants to work in computing he could still do A Level Computing. Although maths, sciences and humanities would be even better.

You are stuck in the dark ages. Did you not read the post where OP states he wants to do computer engineering. If he wants to do CompSci at a-level his French ain't going to help him.

You seem to not realise CompSci is one of the toughest courses to get into at uni. But maybe you are so brilliant you could learn it all in a week at summer camp eh?

If by computing she means computer science then I'll have to respectfully disagree. Computer science is way more sought after than French. Added to which any STEM degree will benefit from him knowing how to code. French will do diddly squat

What nonsense is this? Computing is infinitely more “useful” than French.

Put your foot down OP, your son absolutely shouldn’t have to do French at the expense of a subject that he wants to study to a higher level (and that will likely lead to a very well paid job).

This is a great life lesson for him for the long term. Sometimes non disruptive, targeted rebellion is needed against the crazy policies of large institutions.

I just read a thread about someone who is being told they have to work evenings for half the post of other members of the team. Everyone on that thread is asking why op is such a pushover.

Don't let him turn into a pushover. I tell my kids that us adults can open doors to opportunities for them but they can choose which doors they walk through everyday at school. I then explain prioritisation and what really matters for their future.

He shouldn't be disruptive in class. But he should do the absolute minimum in French from now on, including not answering in tests. You should back him to do this.

And practice lines he can give teachers. Something like 'French is not a priority subject for me, I am choosing to put my energy into other studies, you are welcome to speak to my parent about this or move me down a set as a result.

DfE are pushing Ebacc so schools have to, it’s been announced this week that it’s going to be pushed even more, impacting the current y11 cohort 🤔 so don’t blame the school, blame Nick Gibb and this bonkers government.

I have to say I was in the same situation with my daughter had to go the ebacc route, as the schools target was 100% ebacc my child was able to choose between history or geography and one other option from art, dt, computing, food tech, business studies and p.e can’t remember the other couple but she literally had the choice of one option.
School wouldn’t budge last October school realised that over half the kids they had forced to take French weren’t going to pass, so shoved them into gcse statistics instead.
Fast forward to results day this year it backfired on them my daughter failed French thereby no getting the ebacc marks anyway for their stupid league tables which is all they cared about
She did manage a grade 8 in dt the one option she was allowed to pick amd
it was a very heavy subject the amount of coursework was crazy definitely not “cutting up bit of wood” lol

Sorry not sorry to keep banging on. He’s 14. He can drop the language and do CS A Level. You don’t need it at GCSE.

Labour government dropped MFL requirements at KS4. This led to a steep decline in GCSE entries.

To top that off -- there has been a reduction in the number of GCSE subjects studied. In the 2000s, you had many academic students taking 10-11 GCSEs. The current formulas count the top 8 subjects (as well as changes in the content), so there's a disincentive for students to pile on subjects. 20 years ago you would see a decent number of students doing 2 languages at GCSE as DH & I both did. Not now.

The government has an Ebacc target of 75% which requires students to take an MFL. This has brought entries up somewhat, but nowhere near where they were 20 years ago.

Op if it's about the ebacc are they also forcing him to take a humanities gcse

Well I am amazed to see the English so disdainful of foreign languages. Good thing you left the EU.

When I was young, French was obligatory up to GCSE then, later, when I arrived in Mexico, I met so many Americans who, like the OP's son, had opted out of studying a foreign language and hadn't the first clue about how to go about learning one.

@ErrolTheDragon
Linguistics.

😂😂😂 Smart

@ItsNotRocketSalad
Because French grammar is different. It doesn’t matter that it’s French in particular. It’s more that learning any 2nd language teaches you that there’s more than one logical way to express the same idea or the same relationship between two things.

Conveniently missing the aptitude tests for a myriad of careers he’s not yet considered or heard of. He’s 14.
What doors are closed if he doesn’t do CS at GCSE?

Computer languages don’t have “words” like you see when learning French.
As in “ecoutez-vous” for “listen you” as different commands. See screenshot.

If anything, the language of mathematical proofs is more useful.

Maybe it depends what sort of code you write. I can't say I recognise that at all. I'm curious, what's your area of expertise?

So the doors closed are to an even tougher exam he doesn't want to do and will also be no help for his chosen career, and an optional short course at uni that he also doesn't want to do. How tragic.

I've not read the full thread, so I don't know if someone has offered this perspective. I'm a software developer and consider my language studies to have been useful in forming my professional skillset as a programmer. Picking up a new software development language has a few things in common with learning a real language - you have to learn the keywords and the 'grammar'. Everyone knows that e.g. maths is helpful, but some other esoteric skills can help too. I would advise him to do the French GCSE and would suggest you ask the school for him to do an extra GCSE in the subject he might have to drop.