GCSE "compulsory" subject. DS doesn't want to do it.

Let’s dial it down.
My point is that not doing cs gcse doesn’t stop a 14 year old from having a career in computing/ coding/ aeronautics.
I don’t know the exact reasoning behind the ebac- it’s certainly not easy and that suggests that it provides a good grounding that otherwise children could miss out on. We already specialise earlier here that in other countries. Why wouldn’t you want your dc to have a broad grounding. Why would you want to restrict options early? I genuinely don’t understand.

🤣🤣 Oh the irony of you calling someone else obtuse!

You don't make any sense. If you like learning languages then great, but GCSE French is utterly useless to 99% of people and your nonsensical arguments won't change that.

Your responses are strangely obtuse. Dropping a language age 14 has more of an effect than not doing CS. Don’t understand why you find that tragic.

The myriad of the very tiny number of careers where speaking French at GCSE level would be useful. Again, so tragic.

It doesn't sound like he would do badly at GCSE French, at least. Some schools try and force a compulsory language even for pupils who really struggle with it.

Whether it's worth fighting it may depend on how the timetable is structured. In some schools, everyone has to do a language, and there is no alternative subject taught at the same time, so they can't make exceptions. If it's only compulsory for the top set, that's probably not the case here, and so it might at least be possible.

If they flatly refuse, then the next question is whether it's a big enough deal to make you move school - although you also have the problem of finding another school that has a space and offers the subjects he wants. I guess you may be in a stronger position arguing with the current school if you can say that you've looked into it and the next school along is an option.

You don't need a modern language for anything other than continuing to A-level, and you don't need GCSE Computing to do A-level.

This is true - it's unlikely that sixth forms will yet be requiring gcse CS in order to take the A level (precisely because schools limit options/don't have the teachers). A kid with aptitude and enthusiasm, who may well do coding as a hobby (though that's not all there is to CS) can doubtless manage. But as the uni courses are so competitive then maximising the chances of a top grade may matter,

It's probably also still the case that there's many good CS uni courses which don't require the A level. But this may change. And if the DC isn't a top grade maths and FM type (the OPs DS may or may not be, this is a general point) then a high grade in A level CS surely becomes very relevant.

None of the above means it's a good idea to force a kid to do a subject they neither need nor enjoy at the expense of one they do enjoy which will be of more benefit to them later.

I think you'll probably win this one by making enough of a nuisance of yourself.

Me, I'd encourage him to stick with it and give up DT. It does kids no harm to do one subject they are not keen on - loads of kids have to do subjects they hate (Eng, Maths, Sci) and knowing you can get through it and do Ok is really valuable.

DT should be a great GCSE but there is an absolute dearth of teachers. We had 2 leave in Y10 and school could not replace them at all. With a good teacher it can be a great subject, but I got the impression that this was despite the syllabus rather than because of it. It was DS's first pick when taking options and the only one he ended up hating. It's not just our school either - my DC have friends at several other schools with similar issues. The GCSE seems to have been designed to be as accessible to schools with limited equipment as possible, but that means taking out a lot of practical elements. Rote learning lists of different wood types and their qualities turned out to be no more interesting than learning French vocab lists.

That's not been the case for many years.

You don’t even need a CS A-level let alone GCSE to read CS at university. Maths, Further Maths and Physics is a better bet as school CS is a soft subject.

I work in tech for one of the biggest software developers in the world (you will have definitely heard of it). The vast majority of our developers are multilingual (except the Brits and Americans 🤣). If you want to work for a multinational, having a second language, and more importantly having the facility to pick up enough language to get by, is a huge bonus. My final interview was with a French manager based in London. I’m pretty sure me clocking the accent and switching to French during the interview clinched the job 😁I can socialise with colleagues in our offices abroad, and function better when I’m posted to clients abroad, even if I’m not fluent in the language, in a way monoglots cannot.

When I interview now I always see candidates with a second language more favourably, especially a Brit who didn’t take the easy option of dropping their MFA.

You're making a fuss over nothing. If he's bright, it's not going to take much effort to pass GCSE French or impact his future choices at all.

Can I just reiterate this is about choices at 14.
The high paying coding/tech jobs don’t need a GCSE in computer science. You can catch up easier later.

You say that but I went to France with my boyfriend aged 18 and asked people where the supermarket was in my best GCSE French and no one even understood what I was saying. It was a complete waste of time.

If he might want to do A-level computer science (mine has really enjoyed it) then obviously GCSE computing is going to be vastly more useful than French. DS was able to do Latin and was very pleased to drop MFL.

Computer Science is hugely competitive at university, MFL's aren't.

There isn't a single remaining university in the UK which has an entry requirement, or preference for, of a language at GCSE.

This is exactly what happened to my son although at his his school it was not just the top set but anyone they thought might pass who was forced down this route. My son struggled with the language and there were two other equally "serious" subjects he would have preferred to study.

I fought for months on his behalf but as a governor of the school I knew it was futile: it was all about the eBacc figures.

Sadly, my son failed German (because it turned out he was dyslexic) so he wasn't able to contribute to their eBacc score. Luckily he's just started his degree and having to put down a failed GCSE on his UCAS form hasn't had any impact on his future studies, but it still makes me so angry when I think about it.

At least until recently a language was semi compulsory to get into good universities on popular courses, they wanted to see a spread of subjects including a humanities subject,language, at least double science and obviously maths and double English

Computing isn’t an alternative for mfl in the Ebacc bucket. Schools now being pushed to hit the Ebacc criteria, which requires a foreign language. See earlier post, it’s driven by government not schools.

Nah, computing is also in the Ebacc bucket.

It would be fine from that point of view.

I would imagine even if he were able to drop French, he wouldn’t be able to include one of his preferred options. A lot of GCSE choice is actually restricted by timetabling.

That makes no sense

Why go the more competitive route if there are easier, less competitive routes?

@CancertheCrab I have two children coders in their early 20s earning more money on their first day after graduating than I have earnt in my whole career as a teacher!

Neither ever did any computer science or ICT at GCSE or before, they are physics graduates

Physics is indeed one route to coding but the more competitive route is to take a maths or CompSci degree. Both of which are extremely competitive to get into at good unis and the vast majority will have maths further maths physics and comp sci to get into a CompSci degree. The entry requirements will probably say just maths and further maths but the students applying with generally gave the subjects listed above and it will therefore be risking not getting any offers if a student applied without them. French? Haha. No computer engineering course is going to care. All subjects are valuable. Art. Music. History, Spanish... but not having them won't weaken one's chances of getting into CompSci/engineering. Not having CompSci a-level may or may not. But it certainly will make the degree course easier if you have a background knowledge of CompSci going in

Sorry, this should have been in reply to the person who thinks computing isn’t good to have!

What planet are you living on? Computing isn’t ICT, it’s coding and computer systems.
This looks amazing on a CV, far better than French!

yes, it is normal for this to be non negotiable, if the school has the staff

So many people talking about doors closing and what’s useful and what’s not, when the point is surely him being forced into taking a subject he really doesn’t want to.

My DC is at a private school. In Y7 and Y8 they study two European languages and Latin. In Y9 they can drop one. In Y10 they can study whatever subjects they like (3 or 4 subjects depending on whether they take combined or separate sciences).

They encourage taking a language. They encourage keeping things broad based. If you chose dance, drama, art and DT then there would be discussion around workload, closing doors and be firmly encouraged to swap a few choices. Ultimately though they would much rather you do the subjects you love and get top grades in those.

No university requires the EBACC. There are no curriculum rules making a language compulsory. It’s either a timetabling or school pride thing. Universities look at your top eight GCSE grades sat at the same time (including Oxbridge) and that’s it!!

My DC has dropped all languages. They are very good at them but they took up a huge amount of their time. They are doing both computer science and DT at GCSE and loving it.

Have a look on the school website. Ours has a link to their GCSE options presentation/blurb, so you should be able to see what the usual set up is.

Ours had a few different pathways, including the baccalaureate.

It's not compulsory. Ours were forced to choose between Geography or History, but language was thankfully optional. If they'd been forced then there'd be 2x guaranteed U grades incoming.