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Original poster

GCSE "compulsory" subject. DS doesn't want to do it.

213 replies

sugarhopper · 04/10/2023 20:57

DS is in top set for French at school. School says that if you are in the top set in year 9 then you HAVE to take French as one of your GCSE choices.

Now, while DS is good at it, he doesn't like or enjoy it. Top set of any other subject aren't forced into a GCSE, only the MFL classes.
Also doing French will mean he will have to drop one of his other options (probably Design & Tech or Computing) which he really wants to do. (Also, top set for these subjects)
I know we're going to have a fight on our hands over this, but any advice will be welcome.

OP posts:
cansu · 10/10/2023 20:11

The school does make the policies and take the decisions. They think this because it is true. You do of course have the right to ask them for a change but they do not have to accommodate this. You are of course free to move him to another school.

Angrycat2768 · 10/10/2023 14:11

Lamelie · 04/10/2023 21:01

What does he want to do?
GCSE French is more useful and better thought of than computing. Not doing computing won’t close any doors to him. Not doing GCSE French would.

I dont think thats true. GCSE's apart from English and Maths don't make any difference to anything apart from your ability to get onto an A Level course. He doesnt want to do French A Level. He wants to do computing. The Computing gcse will get him onto the computing course. Being fluent in a language is useful, so that can ge kept up if he has an aptitude for it.

Niinja · 10/10/2023 09:17

Yes this school seems quite light touch about Ebacc. I suppose for you OP it feels more unfair because most students don't have this particular constraint.

We were used to option blocks so to me, restrictions like needing to do a humanity and a MFL seem a small price to pay for an otherwise completely unconstrained choice. But I do think you'll get your way OP.

PosterBoy · 10/10/2023 08:46

"the school thinks that parents here won't really question or argue when it comes to this sort of thing. They seem to think that what they say is final, and don't seem up for a discussion (from what I hear anyway)."

It's not Amazon. They don't have to please the customer. You can't go anywhere else anyway, apparently. It's quite likely they do, correctly, think that whatever they say is final.

If you approach it more as them doing you a favour, rather than you stamping your feet and making a fuss about 'your rights' (hyperbolic), you may have better luck.

ReadyForPumpkins · 10/10/2023 08:37

DC school makes almost everyone do a MFL. I really don’t see a problem with it.

Ifonlyoneday · 10/10/2023 02:27

how many GCSEs do they do at this school. If gcse English x2, science x2, maths and french are compulsory for top set that’s 6 and could leave 2, 3 or 4 options depending on if your school sits 8,9, or 10 GCSEs. I’d so can he not choose to do DT and computer science? Or are there other subjects he is choosing as well?

nb my DDs school make the top 2 sets do French.

JustAMinutePleass · 09/10/2023 21:35

I am a senior software engineer. GCSE and A Level computing is useless and may do more harm than good as often teaches incorrect coding practices. He’s better off taking French, and in his free time, getting a Full Stack IBM professional certificate. That will mean he’ll get to work as a coder / developer at uni while studying and earn a bit of extra cash.

legominfig · 09/10/2023 13:42

Some schools go down/force pupils to go down the Ebacc route, Progress 8 subjects etc as they are judged on it in the results tables.

If a school does badly in these, particularly if the have good neighbouring schools then they're stuffed.

Option setups can be pupil centred or results centred. It's a good, but brave school that feels able to go down the former route.

Many schools' other problems are the recruitment of properly qualified teachers.

In my latter years of teaching I taught, admittedly, to Yr7 + 8, Maths, English for the odd period/week, IT and RE.

My main, qualified, subject was technology/electronics.

Original poster
sugarhopper · 09/10/2023 10:04

Mikimoto · 09/10/2023 07:09

But surely that's not the school's decision to take?
"Compulsory" is set by the national curriculum, i.e. Eng/Maths/Science, etc. (it wasn't that long ago that I found out that all science subjects are now mandatory: thought it was just one, including computing!)

Show quote history

See now, this is my point.
There is "Government Compulsory", which they've all got to do. Fine. Ok, some might not like Maths/English/Science, however if Rishi and co say it's got to be done, it's got to be done.
As I mentioned, my older DC's went to a faith school. RE was "School Compulsory" for all students at GCSE. We knew this when we signed them up. One of my DC's had a bit of an issue but had to suck it up. It was a condition of being at the (quite excellent) school.
There was no such mention of this when I sent DS to this school, which again is my only option now locally.
It's not compulsory for all students, only a select few. I dare say that plenty of kids will want to take the language option for GCSE. And that a lot of those won't be "top set".

My problem is that my DS, while he seems to be naturally quite good at the subject does not want to carry on with it. I think that should be his choice to make.
I just need the right words to say to school, other than Hey you can stick your French GCSE up your arse, the kids doing Design/IT/whatever instead. (and NO I'm not actually going to say that, before someone else calls me ridiculous)
I think the school thinks that parents here won't really question or argue when it comes to this sort of thing. They seem to think that what they say is final, and don't seem up for a discussion (from what I hear anyway).

OP posts:
Mikimoto · 09/10/2023 07:09

ErrolTheDragon · 08/10/2023 23:59

It's perfectly clear. This school say it's compulsory for kids currently in their top French set to take French gcse.

Show quote history

But surely that's not the school's decision to take?
"Compulsory" is set by the national curriculum, i.e. Eng/Maths/Science, etc. (it wasn't that long ago that I found out that all science subjects are now mandatory: thought it was just one, including computing!)

clary · 09/10/2023 06:19

christinarossetti19 · 08/10/2023 23:34

I think you need to clarify by what you mean by compulsory, as you've said that French is and is not a compulsory subject

I think it’s quite clear tbh; the op means the govt says all students need to continue with maths, Eng and science to GCSE level; the op’s school says French is also compulsory for a discrete group - including her son. So it’s the school she has an argument with.

ErrolTheDragon · 08/10/2023 23:59

christinarossetti19 · 08/10/2023 23:34

I think you need to clarify by what you mean by compulsory, as you've said that French is and is not a compulsory subject

It's perfectly clear. This school say it's compulsory for kids currently in their top French set to take French gcse.

christinarossetti19 · 08/10/2023 23:34

I think you need to clarify by what you mean by compulsory, as you've said that French is and is not a compulsory subject

EverySporkIsSacred · 08/10/2023 22:47

My dyslexic DC was told they had to do French as they were in top set and were doing the EBacc.
After much arguing the school decided they could run an Art class in addition to normal school hours (that was what DC actually really wanted to do). DC failed French spectacularly (they were never good at it) and passed Level 2 BTEC Art and Design with Distinction.
Not sure what the school are ever expecting to achieve with the forcing of all top set students to do a Modern Language but certainly in my DCs case it was pointless.

clary · 08/10/2023 22:26

Lots of schools don't do "pathways" tho @Topofthemountain. Schools I worked at and schools my DC attended, for example. I find it hard to believe they couldn't slot the OP's DS into another lesson - what if he were not in the top set? As I understand it, he would then be allowed to choose DT (or whatever) instead of French? Or choose French? seems a bit unfair tbh.

Topofthemountain · 08/10/2023 22:03

My DD did GCSE French, my DS isn't doing it. (Same school) They have learning pathways and have completely different subject / timetable pathways so I would be surprised if it was as easy as just 'slotting into one of the other classes'

Oh, and he didn't get to choose a different subject, that was dictated as well.

Original poster
sugarhopper · 08/10/2023 21:45

timetorefresh · 08/10/2023 19:30

You might find there's no option. Timetables are not infinitely variable. That might be the only lesson on then.

Understood, however, there are over 250 kids in the year group, currently split into 2 groups. Group 1 does French, Group 2 does German. If they make the 2 top sets do GCSE language, that leaves around 190 kids who are doing a different lesson. It's a big school so there should be more of a chance for my DS to slot into a different subject.

@christinarossetti19 If French isn't a compulsory subject, the school is unlikely to 'make' your ds do it, are they?

School have said it is compulsory for the top set.

As some other posters have said, it sounds like the school are trying to push the IBacc thing. Which I think the kids, after sensible discussion should be able to decide for themselves, whether to do it or not, and not have it forced upon them.

OP posts:
christinarossetti19 · 08/10/2023 21:18

If French isn't a compulsory subject, the school is unlikely to 'make' your ds do it, are they?

If you focus on the issue ie that French isn't a compulsory subject and your ds doesn't want to do it, rather than conflate it with the fact that you don't like the school very much, I think you'll find this can be resolved quite easily.

ErrolTheDragon · 08/10/2023 19:43

timetorefresh · 08/10/2023 19:30

You might find there's no option. Timetables are not infinitely variable. That might be the only lesson on then.

Given they're only imposing this on the kids who are top set for French at the moment, that seems extremely unlikely. A kid could be similar to the OPs DS in all other respects and therefore wouldn't be forced to do French rather than another option they preferred.

timetorefresh · 08/10/2023 19:30

You might find there's no option. Timetables are not infinitely variable. That might be the only lesson on then.

Original poster
sugarhopper · 08/10/2023 19:20

Move schools if it is so important to you.

If there was another school to move to I would. As I've said previously, there are no other schools in the area.

Where did the information that children in the top set 'have' to do French GCSE come from?

School obvs.

but talking about having a fight on your hands and stamping your feet in reception is a bit ridiculous

I'm not going to go and actually stamp my feet in reception. I'm not 4. It's a turn of phrase. I'll sit politely until someone from SLT comes to speak to me. I'm not going to have a scrap in the lobby. I will stand my metaphorical ground and back up my kid's choices. French is not a compulsory subject. It was not in the prospectus as being a compulsory subject
(Meaning that at my older DC's school, they HAD to do RE to GCSE as it was a faith school. I signed up for that when I put them in that school). The only subjects listed as compulsory at this school are, as the government has specified.

And I want to re-iterate. I have no problem with French, or any other language. My issue is that my son is being told he HAS to take a GCSE in a subject which he has no interest in, and which he doesn't want to do. My stance would be the same if he were being told he HAD to do history/IT/Art etc

OP posts:
christinarossetti19 · 08/10/2023 15:40

It will be months before final option choices for this Y9 are nailed down.

Before that, there will be at least one 'options evening' and one parents' evening to discuss this properly with the teaching staff.

Where did the information that children in the top set 'have' to do French GCSE come from? Is it official school policy?

You're right to back up your ds's option choices, but talking about having a fight on your hands and stamping your feet in reception is a bit ridiculous before you've actually had a proper conversation at the right time in the right forum about it.

cansu · 08/10/2023 09:25

They are also unlikely to accept your ds just not going to the class! If he does this he will be sanctioned for truanting. The school has a policy. They are not just going to roll over and say oh that's OK then if you disagree. Move schools if it is so important to you.

cansu · 08/10/2023 09:21

They are unlikely to allow your ds as this opens the door for other kids to ask for the same.

Coronateachingagain · 06/10/2023 09:33

Octavia64 · 04/10/2023 21:09

Well, obvious answer is to really really badly in the tests and get put down a set.

That would not be the advice to give to a child