Where in London is the best place to live for grammar options (boys and girls) and good state school fall back options.

Then I think I know the schools you are talking about and I would go Turing House all the way if you have a good chance there (we didn't live near enough or it would definitely have been on my list).

Re tutoring, there certainly are parents who are pushing their kids to do hours a night but it's not everyone or even most people from what I can tell, and that isn't what we did and it worked out well. DD did an hour once a week with nothing in the holidays for about six months and she got into the schools she wanted to get into (including Tiffin, though she didn't end up going there). The tutoring was mainly aimed at exam technique. She used to get half an hour's homework from the tutor and nothing at all from primary school.

She has never had two hours homework a night at any point in her school career - now starting A Levels and although it is more work, it's more like one to one and a half hours a night. She seems to have plenty of time to lounge around watching Netflix and doing activities that take up around 10+ hours a week (her choice).

I would not have wanted to tutor DD myself, even though like the OP I also went to Oxbridge, because I know her and I know me and we would both have ended up cross and resentful. She's an angel for any teacher so paying for tutoring was very much in the interests of having a harmonious home!

@TuttleTree DD1 is very happy at Latymer - it's a great school for the right child. On some of the other points on here re Grammar schools, IME Latymer is not particularly dominated by Asian kids but is pretty mixed racially. DD1 did not have intensive tutoring, started summer term of Y5 and did an hour + a couple of past papers a week but I do know others who started in Y4. The homework is definitely not 2-3 hours a night, I was surprised by how light it really is, more like 3-4 hours a week. The kids are obviously motivated but they're encouraged to do things outside academics, art, music, drama and sport. But it is competitive. I'm not sure how it compares with Woodford/Ilford as we didn't try for those, partly because the journey is more of a pain.

@TheYearOfSmallThings I'm afraid youngest is at the girls school so it doesn't help you. But friends' kids are happy at other mixed schools Frederick Bremmer, Leytonstone, Woodside and Kelmscott. The latter has had a a bad rep but seems to be turning round with an ambitious new head. 10 years ago families with boys used to move out of the area for secondary but that has changed in recent years.

Or maybe it is hard work but very little thought of parents if those schools are worth it. Just a wild goose chase for prestige. Grammar schools are notoriously underfunded, teaching is mediocre in many of them and many were downgraded by OFSTED recently.
And the hard working boys deserve scholarship in a great selective private where at least they will have good pastoral care and maybe a bursary.

Ah you were being sarcastic - got it now. because for a moment I was perplexed why whould you say about white Britis in the context of grammar schools.

Catholic schools are also predominantly full of foreign kids, mainly from the continent.

Well, as for Indian it is not like that. In my son's school there are few very capable Indian boys but much more Indian kids with a very relaxed attitude to the extent that he wonders sometimes if the pay attention at school at all. It seems to me that there are two opposite end of scales in that ethnic group.

Must be some good tutors within the south indian, muslim and hindu community for them to dominate so much

it's the culture of working hard. There's a school near me which hires out it's grounds for stuff on Saturdays. One is tutoring, the class is full of 6 yr olds & the there are very few white dc in there. I think it's too much personally.

@ThingsWillWorkOut - that is the whole point, the superselective grammars are full of Asian kids now (mainly Indian) with an incredible work ethic drilled into from infancy. We know - my kids all went through it. We have observed the kids getting in, we have actually lived the experience all the way.

The white British middle class equivalent in London is catchment based, or church, or go via a eg a music aptitude test. The academies are introducing all sorts of aptitude tests to attract the “right sort” of parent, all perfectly legal, of course. Irony intended.

The OP misunderstood my point - he or she is perfectly capable of tutoring her own kids and probably will understand her own kids’ weaknesses best. Many tutors just fleece for £60 plus an hour over a number of years anyway.

Verbal/non verbal reasoning is a bit like chess - it has to be drilled a little to have the right openers etc. But it can also be drilled all the way. And some of the kids in the top grammars are just that, perfectly drilled.

I just think if you're going to shape your whole house-buying and long-term location on school choices, and a very particular type of school choice, it pays to think about why, and interrogate your own decisions.
personally I have no interest in sending my kids to grammar school and do not think their value-added is actually that great.
I also think they get a more diverse, rounded education from non-grammar and mixing with a broader range of children. Grammars have tiny percentages of children with SEN and on free school meals.
That's my decision, you make yours, but also bear in mind that not all SEN are apparent at nursery age

Araminta...the white Brit middle.class equivalent? Grammar schools in London are dominated by smart Indian kids and few from Singapore and not white Brits...

But we have another good catholic school within 38 min and one bus. And then there ia Turing House which had best results in the borough..... God! It is such a tough choice!

the type of children your own children will be mixing with, what types of ambitions they have, how focused they are in class, how much they work hard/want to learn and do their best

TBH you don't need to be in a Grammar school to have all that in London. Some Grammar schools are OTT in such aspect and do more damage than good for the childrens education development.

For commuting time, it is not just total time that matters, how volatile, comfortable and accessible of the commute method is also worth considering.

More than 50 mins commute time with bus change in between is generally not ideal, you probably want less time, less change and avoid less congestion route.

Also if the kids has before and after school time activities, you want to have similar safe commute options too.

I think in part it is self-selecting (i.e. children from these backgrounds are more likely to sit the test and put it as their first choice school).

Most of the children who attend the girls grammar travel in from other parts of Redbridge.

It isn’t about the “tutor” - it is the culture of expecting your DC to 2-3 hours homework/extra work a night. Why would you want that?

The white Brit middle class equivalent - buy in a Boden catchment of terraced houses, go to church, or game the system via eg music/language aptitude tests for the top ACADEMY comps. Just look at their criteria online on their admissions pages - if you have a degree from Oxford, use it! And why would you need a tutor anyway if you have such a degree!!!

I did a 50 minute journey to my grammar school in Kent, back in the day.

Why do you want a school that requires intensive tutoring to get in?
I just find this whole thing very bizarre. It's no reflection on the actual school, it's its perceived desirability and attractiveness.
What happens if your children have special educational needs?

No it wouldn't, lots of kids in Walthamstow go to Woodford County and Ilford County. They are less selective than Latymer (or QE) snd are often chosen because they are single sex.

@TuttleTree personally go with a good comp

At my sons redbridge primary (4 form entry) nobody got into grammar. My son is top 3% (got 116 plus all CATs) and wasnt high enough to get in. Hes gold on UK Maths Challenge

I have several older kids and dont know anyone who has ever passed grammars in Redbridge.

Worth mentioning they are 95% South Indian and muslim/ hindu intake. My son was one of only two white boys at the open day, which shocked him.

Unless your kids are top 1% dont bother.