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Original poster

Private school to ditch GCSEs, write own exams

234 replies

noblegiraffe · 13/09/2023 19:40

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/gcses-private-schools-london-qualification-latymer-school-b1106686.html

Not entirely sure what to make of this. Latymer Upper (I'm not really up on private schools so don't know how fancy it is) is planning to ditch GCSEs and create its own assessments to 'free up teaching time'.

I guess if it's a super-selective type school they'd be expecting all the kids to go onto A-levels anyway so aren't worried about losing GCSEs, but what of kids who want to go elsewhere? How recognised would their portfolio be?

Also, we know from covid just how good some private schools are at marking their own homework so how would anyone know if standards were being maintained?

I'm surprised that a school has enough staffing capacity to set up its own exam system tbh.

More private schools could ditch GCSE after London school announces own qualification

Latymer Upper School will drop all GCSEs except maths and English

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/gcses-private-schools-london-qualification-latymer-school-b1106686.html

OP posts:
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DynastywasthebestTV · 14/09/2023 19:02

Supercoolmoon · 14/09/2023 18:52

Im in the process of applying for LU and I can assure you that the students there won’t become primary school teachers. Most likely not even private primary teachers…

I have a child at LU and I can assure you they might- if you think it's not a good enough profession it may be the wrong school for you!

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 14/09/2023 18:59

No school is going to drop science GCSE before checking that the equivalent will be accepted by teacher training providers.

The article in the OP suggests that they are planning to. The entry requirements posted from a teacher training provider upthread suggests equivalents are not accepted.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 14/09/2023 18:57

Supercoolmoon · 14/09/2023 18:52

Im in the process of applying for LU and I can assure you that the students there won’t become primary school teachers. Most likely not even private primary teachers…

What a shitty attitude to have.

The prospect of being surrounded by twats who sneer at the teaching profession would do more to put me off the school than their abandoning of an internationally recognised qualification for something with the name of the school they went to on it.

OP posts:
MelodiousThunk · 14/09/2023 18:55

curaçao · 14/09/2023 00:59

I get that, but other countries have their own public exam system which will generally be more robust than ' marking their own homework'
I wonder if Bedales is planning to diversify itself into selling their 'gcse equivalents' and becoming a kid f exam noard too

Show quote history

Most countries don’t have public exams aged 15/16.

PreplexJ · 14/09/2023 18:53

VeloVixen · 14/09/2023 18:41

So they’d all need to do English, maths and a science A level? Unlikely combination.

Show quote history

LU doesn't intent to drop English and maths for GCSE if you read the news.

Supercoolmoon · 14/09/2023 18:52

Im in the process of applying for LU and I can assure you that the students there won’t become primary school teachers. Most likely not even private primary teachers…

goldfootball · 14/09/2023 18:43

This reminds me of the book Terms and Conditions by Ysenda Maxtone Graham which gets across how random mid 20th century private education was. It’s fascinating - no national curriculum and schools doing whatever the fuck they want. I’m torn because I basically love the idea of school doing its own thing but it annoys me that it’s only private schools that can get away with it. It’s also just so impractical.

Moonlaserbearwolf · 14/09/2023 18:43

noblegiraffe · 14/09/2023 15:34

Well yes, they’ll need a qualification they don’t have so would need to arrange, prepare for, sit and pay for the exams.

No school is going to drop science GCSE before checking that the equivalent will be accepted by teacher training providers. Just as they didn’t drop any GCSEs before producing alternatives that would be recognised by UCAS for the purpose of university admissions. GCSE equivalents from schools such as Bedales are externally moderated and extremely highly regarded.

VeloVixen · 14/09/2023 18:41

PreplexJ · 14/09/2023 18:36

For university applications, students do not usually need to meet the maths or science GCSE requirements if they have studied a relevant subject at a higher level. So it is really pointless to think this will affect their university chances (at least for those top university the LU is targeting).

So they’d all need to do English, maths and a science A level? Unlikely combination.

PreplexJ · 14/09/2023 18:36

For university applications, students do not usually need to meet the maths or science GCSE requirements if they have studied a relevant subject at a higher level. So it is really pointless to think this will affect their university chances (at least for those top university the LU is targeting).

VeloVixen · 14/09/2023 18:28

redrobin75 · 13/09/2023 20:28

Teddies (St Edwards) in Oxford did something similar but dropped it when they had a change of head. Sevenoaks also had a school certificate of some kind but a new head has bought in igcses/ GCSEs for all subjects.
The problem is if UCAS won't acknowledge the school based certificate then it makes uni applications uncertain and parents nervous.

I work at a university. As well as A level/ucas points we specify maths, English and science gcse. A school certificate won’t count.

LolaSmiles · 14/09/2023 18:27

@LolaSmiles it definitely won't be their results. It's a very academic school. If anything it'll be their marketing team saying the school is 'forward thinking' and 'dynamic'. Or whatever other catchphrase they want
I see. I'm rather ignorant about the private system on the whole other than anecdotal accounts of friends at smaller local ones.

Do you think such a very academic, and I'm guessing expensive, school would find enough parents who'd pay a small fortune to not leave with recognised qualifications? Or is it that those families are likely to have enough money that they'd put their children in for whatever GCSEs they needed with tutors?

roses2 · 14/09/2023 18:23

That's LU off my list then. I don't want DS to be a guinea pig for some new assessment that universities may struggle to benchmark against.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 14/09/2023 15:34

Well yes, they’ll need a qualification they don’t have so would need to arrange, prepare for, sit and pay for the exams.

OP posts:
NotQuiteHere · 14/09/2023 15:09

noblegiraffe · 14/09/2023 09:54

Please note we do NOT accept GCSE Short Courses, GCSE English Literature, GCSE Equivalent Tests from other institutions or organisations, Key Skills Level 2 or Functional Skills Level 2.

Hmmm. So those kids would need to sit GCSE science at a later date.

Or maybe the assumption is that their kids are too good to be primary teachers.

So those kids would need to sit GCSE science at a later date.

Do you seriously think this could be a problem if they later decide to pursue teaching profession?

NotQuiteHere · 14/09/2023 15:07

Good news. Hopefully this will stimulate some general discussion about education and assessment.

Foxesandsquirrels · 14/09/2023 13:36

@LolaSmiles it definitely won't be their results. It's a very academic school. If anything it'll be their marketing team saying the school is 'forward thinking' and 'dynamic'. Or whatever other catchphrase they want.

LolaSmiles · 14/09/2023 13:04

The cynic in me wonders if their GCSE results have slipped a bit, or they have a lot of people leaving for sixth form elsewhere
I hadn't thought about this.

I'd understand wanting to opt out of GCSEs though. In my subject the marking has been horrendous this year.

HawaiiWake · 14/09/2023 11:38

This will stop pupils transferring out at Sixth form based on GCSEs.
They most probably can do A levels earlier and increase numbers of A levels. MFL, especially if bilingual in Year 9, DT and Arts, Music earlier etc. So they could come out with 6 to 8 A levels.
Check out their 11+ papers samples, some Maths questions are at GCSEs level for Year 6.
Pupils going to US, Canada, European universities will be fine.

PreplexJ · 14/09/2023 11:30

Lots of LU students/parents turn St Paul's down because they want a coed environment

londonmummy1966 · 14/09/2023 11:24

Latymer Upper is one of the most over subscribed and selective private schools in London. I imagine very few of those offered a place turn it down (other than for St Pauls). I would imagine that there is a massive frustration that GCSEs require teaching to the test (and at LU its probably teaching to 11/12/13 tests as the pupils are so very bright they'll be taking strings of GCSEs) rather than pursuing a more interesting and academically stimulating curriculum that would run into A levels/IB etc.

I would expect that lots of their pupils take a gap year unless going on to read a subject like maths where its frowned on so UCAS is unlikely to be a problem as they'll apply grades in hand. Lots will be looking to Oxbridge/med school/maths at COWI where they may well have to do some form of aptitude test - STEP/LNat/BMAT/UCAT etc so again the lack of GCSEs may well be less of an issue. Not supposition as 2023 leavers destinations show 14 to Warwick, 21 Oxbridge, 14 Durham 8 Imperial and 19 Bristol......

Although the article doesn't say so it might well be that if they scrap GCSEs the pupils then end up taking more than 4 A levels so the UCAS points will be even higher. Its not particularly new as I remember when AS levels were brought in the High Mistress at St Pauls girls mooted getting her girls to sit a minimal number of GCSEs in Year 10 and then sit a load of ASs instead of GCSEs in Year 11 as that would provide a better academic curriculum.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 14/09/2023 11:03

Presenting me with the opinion of people far removed from the current situation in schools and expecting me to be interested in it is rather like suggesting that I listen to Gove's opinion because he introduced the 9-1 GCSEs!

My considered opinion to those waffling on about ditching GCSEs from their ivory towers is 'get in the sea'. The education system in crisis, schools are literally collapsing, we're running out of teachers and basically the system cannot withstand yet another massive curriculum and examination overhaul.

I will repeat what I said earlier, the age of leaving education may be 18, but the age of leaving school for a lot of children remains at 16. Unless they want to mess with that too?

OP posts:
LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand · 14/09/2023 10:35

This brings back memories! Decades ago the department I worked in insisted we write our own preliminary exams for Standard Grade and Higher (Scotland). It took hours of work! I know it isn't the same thing as OP but we were rigorous in checking the type of questions, the number of questions, how much each question was worth and then writing the answer scheme! We spent forever discussing suitable texts too for the specific levels. It was awful simply because it was on top of everything else.

EctopicSpleen · 14/09/2023 10:28

noblegiraffe · 14/09/2023 09:48

The GCSE system needs reform - there is no need for high stakes testing at 16 when the school leaving age is 18.

Assuming that the kids pootle along in a uniformly academic fashion towards A-levels and then uni, this is possibly true (which I guess Latymer pupils generally do). However, most pupils don't do this. Loads of kids from my school don't leave education, but they do leave school. They head off to colleges and apprenticeships and they need their results from school in an easily understandable way for those new providers to decide whether they are suitable candidates.

Even the guy who created them says they're redundant :
https://www.tes.com/magazine/archive/lord-baker-gcses-now-redundant

"Calls for a 14-19 “national baccalaureate”, combining academic and vocational subjects, are growing louder."
https://feweek.co.uk/its-a-delicate-business-this-assessment-reform/

"it is reasonable to conclude that the current approach of setting ‘school-leaving qualifications’ at age 16 is no longer required. The decision to maintain a full suite of national examinations at 16 also puts England at odds with most other developed nations"
https://www.edsk.org/publications/reassessing-the-future-part-1/

And then there's the Tomlinson review, which concluded - nearly 20 years ago - that the GCSE / A level system was already outdated, even in 2004.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4299151.stm

Lord Baker: GCSEs now ‘redundant’

Now compulsory education continues to 18, there is no need to test at 16, says the architect of the qualifications

https://www.tes.com/magazine/archive/lord-baker-gcses-now-redundant

Georgiepud · 14/09/2023 10:08

If it were me in charge of the format, but it's not, I would take the good bits from the GCSE curriculum to test the pupils on and dump all the rubbish. Then add in my own less rigid teaching and questions. So a mixture of both worlds.
Latymer Upper is already oversubscribed. I can't see that changing.

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