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Secondary education

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Original poster

I really don’t understand the secondary school admissions - please demystify this for me.

88 replies

CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 07:22

We moved house over the summer to London for work reasons. We came from a part of the country where almost everyone goes to their catchment school and for secondary we have 2 schools in town so you go to the one you are catchmented to on the map. Most people know the schools their children will go to before they are even born. I know in other parts of the country demand in places is higher but, over the summer, when we applied for a Y6/primary place I had my first education culture shock. I applied for the 6 closest schools and got none of them and offered a school for the kids miles away.

Anyways, fast forwarding, eldest one Y6 and I’ve been looking at admissions. I am so confused. I know I have to apply for 6 schools on genuine order of preference. I’m looking through the books and the find a school government website and half the schools on the website aren’t even in the book so are we allowed to apply for them? There’s these things called banding tests which apparently determine whether you get a place on ability - are these grammar schools? Can you only apply for them if you do a test? Most of the schools are faith schools which need either a feeder school or 2+ yeas or church attendance which we don’t, and never will, have. I don’t understand how to navigate this system. I am so lost. I just want my children to go to the local school but I cant find any catchment maps to say what our catchment is.

OP posts:
Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 17:31

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 13/09/2023 14:01

Do you have a boy, girls? Do you have a preference for single sex or co-ed?

Do any of them have a particular ability? Languages, art, music, sport?

The area you are in has schools like GreyCoat - all girls with a language aptitude test, or Camden School For Girls that has a music aptitude test.

For secondary they don't all need to go to the same school - it's quite common in London to pick different ones for each child.

Show quote history

So much variety! I’ve never thought about any of this before (because I’ve never had to).

I suppose, Co-Ed, non faith, local, comprehensive, all the DC in the same school but sensing this isn’t the done thing here. I really don’t mind in all honestly. If it’s a boys school than it’s boys but Co-Ed is preferable. If we end up with a faith school then that’s what we end up with. I’m mainly interested in local I’m not convinced commuting large distances for hours a day does anyone any good and having happy children who do well, enjoy school and get out of it what they need for their next steps is probably the most important thing.

I wouldn’t say either of them had a particular ability, DS interested in rugby and plays the piano and DD plays the piano (although I don’t think she’s that interested so will probably be giving up any day now)

DS is year 6.
I also have a DD in year 3.

OP posts:
MarchingFrogs · 13/09/2023 17:30

Somebody commented upthread that you should consider whether a school has a sibling link, so that you don't have to go through all this again next time.

PLEASE do not interpret this as meaning that your younger DC will just be allocated a place at the same school, without you having to apply for it. I mean, hopefully you won't have done, but if I had 50p for every parent whose response to the question at their school appeal Why didn't you apply on time? is 'I didn't think I had to, because his / her sibling is already there'.... as the saying goes

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 13/09/2023 17:29

CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 16:47

@sjj28358 I thought sibling priority came as standard - this is certainly something I wasn’t expecting. Thanks for the tip.

I do need to read through the admissions properly, but I take it from what you said, that my plan to name a couple of the faith based schools because they are close is not necessarily a wise thing to do?
Would you say, that without being able to tick boxes for faith feeders and church attendance that applying for faith schools might be a waste of time/ a choice best left for a school we have more chance at?

Looking at the Westminster brochure, there are some faith schools where it is probably pointless applying unless you have either gone to church weekly for last 5 years and can back it up, or you live practically next door. If you're over 0.5 miles then don't risk wasting a space.

Some faith schools offered places to all applicants - which suggests they were not high up on anyone's list of preferences. You may like the school but worth asking why they are able to offer everyone who wants one a place.

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 17:21

Start now by gathering all the information from your local council, find each school on a map, read the admission criteria for each school and make a list.

@endofthelinefinally this is great advice. I’ll have to get a map and borrow my child’s pencil case compass to make little circles and see which ones we land in.

@CatsOnTheChair good tip - time for some people watching, almost my favourite hobby so should be too hard. Finally found something in admissions that I might actually be able to understand.

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Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 17:14

@KeepTheTempo

Good point about asking DS. He will be hearing about schools more than me probably so might actually be a bit more clued up than I am.

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memote · 13/09/2023 17:14

For secondary they don't all need to go to the same school - it's quite common in London to pick different ones for each child.

Yes my siblings & I all went to different schools all of which were out of borough.

memote · 13/09/2023 17:12

You can go onto the borough websites & see the furthest distance offer by school; some will be tiny.

What borough are you in?

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 17:10

Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies · 13/09/2023 08:15

I definitely wouldn’t discuss secondary schools with other parents. They are not neutral. They may see you as competition. They may hate a school based on something they read, or saw 20 years ago. They may love a school, purely because it’s seen as the most desirable school in the area.

Show quote history

I have noticed it’s definitely a very big topic of conversation down here which I think in some parents can be taken to the extreme.
I’m not really buying into this competitive school, talk behind the back “bitchyness” (apologies, I couldn’t think of what else to describe it as). I don’t understand it and find it a totally foreign concept. People can choose what they want and I’ll chose what we want as far as I’m concerned.
I will be asking them about the admissions process though and any other information freely given will be stored in the memory banks for reference but not necessarily responded to (because I’m clueless so can’t actually comment anyways)

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Fluffycloudsfloatinginthesky · 13/09/2023 17:04

@CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal my council publish it in an admissions booklet. Maybe see if you Google you can find the older one.

I think those distances are offer day though so it's possible reality is a little further out.

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 17:00

They key thing is to understand is the furthest distance people got into each school to guess your chances. Good to look at a couple of years to see if it moves.

@Fluffycloudsfloatinginthesky how do I find the data for previous years? I’ve only quickly looked through Westminster and Brent booklets but they only mention admissions details for 2023.

OP posts:
Marisquita · 13/09/2023 16:55

I linked to Camden’s webpage upthread.

There are certainly “dead cert” schools in your general area. E.g. so far as I know, neither Marylebone Boys’ (single-sex, Westminster) nor Haverstock (co-ed, Camden) has been oversubscribed in any recent year.

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 16:52

Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies · 13/09/2023 08:10

Very importantly… YOU MUST INCLUDE A SCHOOL THAT YOUR CHILD WILL GET INTO.

Apologies for the capitals, but this is crucial. Your local school might be truly appalling… but it’s better than the same school 15 miles away.

This is the hardest bit I think! Admissions here are extremely complicated and borderline insane! I’m sure it’ll all make sense in the end though.

No school here is truly appalling by northern standards. My kids can go to any and still get a better education than they would back home so I’m not too fussy over things like results etc. I’m just trying to figure out how I know we will get a place - I’m lost without my catchment maps and guaranteed local school. 😭😆

OP posts:
Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 16:47

@sjj28358 I thought sibling priority came as standard - this is certainly something I wasn’t expecting. Thanks for the tip.

I do need to read through the admissions properly, but I take it from what you said, that my plan to name a couple of the faith based schools because they are close is not necessarily a wise thing to do?
Would you say, that without being able to tick boxes for faith feeders and church attendance that applying for faith schools might be a waste of time/ a choice best left for a school we have more chance at?

OP posts:
Needmorelego · 13/09/2023 16:33

@PictureFrameWindow you only apply via your "home" borough - but can include the schools in the other boroughs. You only apply once (but with 6 choices).

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 16:31

Thank you for all these replies. This is really helpful. I’m going methodically through all the replies so I will provide information throughout the evening as I read a few replies, think about them, provide the info or ask a further question. It might seem a little bitty but I will definitely cover all points/questions asked so all the relevant information required to help us is available.

Banding tests - I understand the purpose of banding now so happier - will make sure I know when the dates are for those tests. Seems a bit bonkers to me but I can almost sort of see the logic - maybe. We won’t be applying for real grammar schools. It was never on the radar because we don’t have them where we moved from. They were always this mythical creature which existed in the south and didn’t concern us. I honestly don’t understand the driver to apply and go on such long journeys considering the quality of the schools in London. However, I’m saying that from an I’ve only every know the comprehensive go to your local school system in a part of the country where negative progress is the norm and a pass rate of 29% is considered excellent point of view.

You should ask for help from your primary school to explain it. They might be able to tell you which schools their pupils frequently move on to.

I shall do this, although my DC are at primary school in a different borough and are a few miles away so the schools the rest of the class move into might not be relevant but speaking through the process with someone will definitely help.

Admissions brochures - someone has kindly provided a link to Westminster and I have the one for Brent so I just need to find the Camden one online. My DS brought the Brent one home from school yesterday, the same one the majority of the class had taken home with them, which is why I was getting confused. Not his fault. He wasn’t to know he needed to pick the Westminster pack up as well (and neither did I so it’s all good).

OP posts:
PictureFrameWindow · 13/09/2023 16:02

We live in an area where three boroughs meet meaning we'll have to apply for schools in three boroughs. It's so tricky.

elkiedee · 13/09/2023 14:10

I'm in Haringey, north London, and I think my primary school had a list of local open evenings in September and October, which should come out this week or next week. You can look on the schools pages of your council website. Generally schools don't have a "catchment area" and where schools are oversubscribed, admissions will be on distance, and students need to live very close to some of those schools, in very affluent areas with lots of professional parents, and apparently a lot of private tuition.

I'm on the much less middle class side of my borough, much too far from those schools up to GCSE, though we do have gentrification and parents with a very good education themselves. DS1 has done quite well at GCSE at our very local 11-16 comprehensive, and is sad to have had to change schools, but probably has a bigger choice of subjects by having to go elsewhere (he has gone to a secondary school's expanded sixth form on the posh side of the borough with an intake of students from across the borough and its neighbours and a record of quite good results at A level).

You could also try seeing if there are local parents' groups on Facebook, for example.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 13/09/2023 14:01

CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 13:19

There’s some really great advice here which is helping to clear things up so thank you to everyone so far. I’m at work but later on today I will go through this a bit more methodically, digest the information and reply/ask questions properly rather than rushing.

I think for the time being, the main asked question is about the borough - we are Westminster but also near Camden and I think it’s Brent?

Do you have a boy, girls? Do you have a preference for single sex or co-ed?

Do any of them have a particular ability? Languages, art, music, sport?

The area you are in has schools like GreyCoat - all girls with a language aptitude test, or Camden School For Girls that has a music aptitude test.

For secondary they don't all need to go to the same school - it's quite common in London to pick different ones for each child.

PatriciaHolm · 13/09/2023 13:23

For Westminster -

Starting secondary school from September 2024 | Westminster City Council

you may have seen that already but it will give you a guide to Westminster schools, their admissions criteria and past distances allocated, as well as admissions arrangements such as banding tests .

Depending on where you live, you may realistically be close enough to other boroughs, who will have their own websites with the relevant information .

Starting secondary school from September 2024 | Westminster City Council

Find out the how the application process works for your child's application to secondary school from September 2024.

https://www.westminster.gov.uk/children-and-families/education/school-admissions/starting-secondary-school-september-2024

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 13:19

There’s some really great advice here which is helping to clear things up so thank you to everyone so far. I’m at work but later on today I will go through this a bit more methodically, digest the information and reply/ask questions properly rather than rushing.

I think for the time being, the main asked question is about the borough - we are Westminster but also near Camden and I think it’s Brent?

OP posts:
Marisquita · 13/09/2023 11:24

Also don’t overlook the help available from your local council - e.g. (randomly picked) here is Camden council’s schools admissions page with relevant links and info about a Y6 parent information evening next week:

https://www.camden.gov.uk/school-admissions-general

Marisquita · 13/09/2023 11:20

Type your postcode into Locrating to see which secondaries are near you.

https://www.locrating.com/

As others have said, you’ll get more focused responses if you say roughly where you are (which borough). There is plenty of London knowledge on here.

CatsOnTheChair · 13/09/2023 10:06

@Since you aren't at your most local primary, I'd also try to be out near home around school coming home time one afternoon. Look at the uniforms that you see most of, and work out what schools the majority of local kids attend.

endofthelinefinally · 13/09/2023 09:26

YukoandHiro · 13/09/2023 09:04

I'm glad you posted this OP. I am in London with a child only in Y2 but already I'm getting anxious as we've moved into an area with no school in which would be included by distance. And now I've no idea how to go about it.

Nearest school is amazing but insanely catholic and requires mass attendance forms so no chance.

Lots of kids on our road seem to go into another borough using an aptitude test.

I don't even know where to start.

Start now by gathering all the information from your local council, find each school on a map, read the admission criteria for each school and make a list.
Things can change, obviously, but if you start now you will have the framework ready for the start of year 5. You also need to include distance and transport in your list.
You need to be ready to do open evenings in year 5.