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Original poster

I really don’t understand the secondary school admissions - please demystify this for me.

88 replies

CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 07:22

We moved house over the summer to London for work reasons. We came from a part of the country where almost everyone goes to their catchment school and for secondary we have 2 schools in town so you go to the one you are catchmented to on the map. Most people know the schools their children will go to before they are even born. I know in other parts of the country demand in places is higher but, over the summer, when we applied for a Y6/primary place I had my first education culture shock. I applied for the 6 closest schools and got none of them and offered a school for the kids miles away.

Anyways, fast forwarding, eldest one Y6 and I’ve been looking at admissions. I am so confused. I know I have to apply for 6 schools on genuine order of preference. I’m looking through the books and the find a school government website and half the schools on the website aren’t even in the book so are we allowed to apply for them? There’s these things called banding tests which apparently determine whether you get a place on ability - are these grammar schools? Can you only apply for them if you do a test? Most of the schools are faith schools which need either a feeder school or 2+ yeas or church attendance which we don’t, and never will, have. I don’t understand how to navigate this system. I am so lost. I just want my children to go to the local school but I cant find any catchment maps to say what our catchment is.

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Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 16/09/2023 12:49

@OhCrumbsWhereNow I think based on how quickly I’ve had to figure everything out and the little time we have to sort anything we will just be going for places based on distance and will do the banding tests if they are needed for a school we name.
I’d already decided journeys were either walk or one bus/tube (although we don’t seem to have any tube journeys on the list). Everything else was crossed off, but good to hear I wasn’t being too brutal with my discarding schools.
Thanks for all the other tips, I will certainly be keeping all of those in mind.

@Marisquita Thank you for that insight. Based on that I’ll keep the 3 select on religion schools on the list, we were in cut off for distance for all of them which is why they made the short list, and stick with what I originally picked out rather than looking further afield for more. That gives us a potential 7 to choose 6 from that we can put on the CAF then there’s Ark King Solomon so 8 to investigate and visit.

Next questions are: which is better - open evening or open morning? Are you allowed to take your child out of school for an open morning?

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Marisquita · 16/09/2023 11:00

Regent High doesn’t have a good local reputation, but I don’t have direct knowledge of it. I wouldn’t include anything with an hour’s bus journey.

Personally I think it would be a mistake to cross schools off which talk of a Christian ethos - or at least a mistake to infer that that would necessarily mean they ram religion down your throat. The diverse demographics of the likely intake of some of these schools will mean that often the Christian ethos means roughly “be kind” while the children learn just as much about their classmates’ Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and other traditions. Certainly at my DCs’ “Christian ethos” schools elsewhere in London anyone who is actually Christian is in a minority.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 16/09/2023 10:56

If I remember correctly, the banding tests are all after the CAF is submitted, so the schools will send you details of the available date/dates.

Pre CAF you only need to watch for application dates if you are applying for aptitude places (a lot closed yesterday) as they like to get the results back to you before the closing date for the CAF.

Details of open days/evenings are all listed on the Westminster Council brochure (coloured column on right hand side of each school info page) and normally you just turn up, you don't have to registered.

In terms of London specific - really check the journey times. It's far better to have one long bus or tube than 2 or 3 shorter ones with changes. Also check if there are multiple routes to get there and back in case tube is down or buses go wrong.

Agree 6th form is a not a major factor - basically IB you carry on doing maths/MFL/English etc rather than narrowing to a specific subject set. Suits some kids really well if they are all rounders, but hell if you loathe humanities and just want to focus on maths (or vice versa).

Gut feeling on schools is really important - more so than the Ofsted rating. Know where your child sits and how that cohort fare at each school (if they're aiming for top grades and there isn't a cohort getting that then you have a problem, but if they're likely to be around middle/lower middle and the percentage getting 5+ in Eng/Maths is low then you probably also have a problem).

Also personality counts. I love DD's secondary, but she's a very assertive, confident kid who knows what she wants and isn't shy about asking for it. She's an ideal fit for them. If I had a very shy child it would probably be a disaster. So ignore all the glossy PR spin at the open days and focus on whether you can see your child being happy there and fitting in.

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 16/09/2023 10:40

@OhCrumbsWhereNow thats absolutely fantastic. Thank you. I really appreciate the effort you have put into help.

We are 3.1 from Pimlico so that’s probably a no. Ive had a look at the website though and I will take a more in-depth look. Plus it might be one we can add into the list now I think I’ll only end up with 4 schools on it so worth considering.

I have no opinion on IB vs A levels, but lots of people move for college/sixth form so I’m not seeing this as a big problem. That said, I should probably look into what the IB is and what it’s all about.

I’ll go see Ark King Solomon. This seems like a free 7th choice from what I’ve worked out. I think both kids are already on the waiting list for this one for the primary section.

I think I’ll cross UCL academy off because there are better closer schools. I think I could get rid of Ark Burlington purely on the 38 minute bus journey.
I’m not really up for dealing with full on religion so I might cross St. George’s, St Augustine’s and Westminster City off the list because all select on religion. I’m going to have a search of their websites first though.

If I did that I would end up with only 4 schools on the CAF
Marylebone, Paddington, Westminster academy and Harris St. John’s Wood. Our ‘banker’ I think is included in that list and I’ll go see all of them.
From reading a few threads and the main advice is to fill all the spaces I might have to be a bit more open to religion and include 2 of those or add Ark Burlington back on the list and only one religious school.
Haverstock has also been mentioned which I haven’t looked into, although I’ve crossed it off my original long list for some reason, and yesterday Regent High and Phoenix Academy were mentioned. Although my original list had Regent High crossed off because of cut off distance so probably not and Phoenix would be a 59 minute bus journey.
Hmmmm….. and I thought getting my head around the admissions system was hard, this might be harder!

I think the next thing I need to do is work out how to apply/register for banding tests but I think this is covered in the booklets so I can figure that out. I also need to book some open days. Ive looked at websites but I haven’t looked properly/ in depth yet so I should probably do that. I have no reference to secondary schools other than 2 northern comprehensives. Are there things London specific which I need to look out for?

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Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 16/09/2023 10:35

@Needmorelego London transport is probably one of my first London culture shocks. I hadn’t seen a public bus in about 20 years never mind trains and tubes😂
But It’s absolutely amazing! I mean, there’s actually public transport that’s cheep and reliable. Although cashless and oyster completely threw me. I’ll never forget the first time I used a bus and tried to use cash…..
Love it though!

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Attictroll · 15/09/2023 18:36

One thing to mention work out when the open days are as some get over subscribed and some dates will clash if in different boroughs. Visiting the schools in a real priority I changed my mind viewing some - also try and go for visits by the means of transport your dc would use 😊

Good luck

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 14/09/2023 18:53

Based on those, I'd be booking visits to:
Ark King Solomon
Marylebone Boys
Paddington Academy
Harris St John's Wood
Westminster Academy
and if I was up for dealing with religion then St George's.

I would ditch the others unless one was literally round the corner and would do as a banker.

Visiting is REALLY vital. Schools I loved on paper I really hated in person and vice versa.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 14/09/2023 18:48
  • Marylebone boys
All applicants offered a place here P8 - 0.09 A8 - 53.3 5+ E&M: 63% Ofsted: Good (2022)
  • Ark king Solomon
This is an all-though school from age 4 to 18, so you could potentially try and move your DD there straight away if your DS goes as they have siblings as priority criteria 3. They have a high Progress 8 score P8 - 1.24 A8 - 61 5+ E&M: 83% Ofsted: Outstanding but 2013
  • Paddington academy
This looks good P8 - 0.96 A8 - 59.8 5+ E&M: 71% Ofsted: Outstanding (2023)
  • Westminster academy
This looks good, but it does IB not A level for 6th form so that may be something to consider. Would have been a hard no for me as my DD is not an all rounder, but if your child is then well worth considering. This looks good P8 - 0.43 A8 - 55.4 5+ E&M: 65% Ofsted: Outstanding but 2013
  • St. George’s catholic
Only took 11 students out of 180 who didn't have paperwork from a priest. It will be very Catholic P8 - 0.59 A8 - 60.2 5+ E&M: 67% Ofsted: Outstanding but 2014
  • St Augustine’s CE
Took everyone who applied - but non-religious is criteria 14 on the list so suspect religion is a big thing. Banding Test P8 - -0.17 A8 - 50.9 5+ E&M: 56% Ofsted: Good (2023)
  • Harris Academy St. John’s Wood
P8 - 0.82 A8 - 55.9 5+ E&M: 63% Ofsted: Good (2019)
  • UCL academy
P8 - 0.24 A8 - 52.4 5+ E&M: 60% Ofsted: Requires Improvement (2022)
  • Ark Burlington
P8 - -0.10 A8 - 49.7 5+ E&M: 50% Ofsted: Good (2022)
  • Westminster city boys
All applicants offered a place. Banding Test needed P8 - 0.03 A8 - 53.1 5+ E&M: 59% Ofsted: Good (2022)

You could potentially add Pimlico Academy - they offered 86 places on distance with last distance 2.09 miles.
P8 - 0.54
A8 - 55.2
5+ E&M: 58%
Ofsted: Good (2021)

Needmorelego · 14/09/2023 17:57

@CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal as a "newcomer" to London (17 years now 😂) I think public transport in London is actually fantastic and reasonably priced.

Needmorelego · 14/09/2023 17:54

@CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal there were plans to stop the free buses but thankfully there was a petition against it.

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 14/09/2023 17:47

I’m going to share my list below because you will all know far more than me and might have some insight you would like to share.

  • Marylebone boys
  • Ark king Solomon
  • Paddington academy
  • Westminster academy
  • St. George’s catholic
  • St Augustine’s CE
  • Harris Academy St. John’s Wood
  • UCL academy
  • Ark Burlington
  • Westminster city boys
I have a few questions as well
  • Firstly, do people think this is a sensible list? There’s nothing on there people are screaming ‘NO!’ at?
  • Ark king Solomon is a don’t apply on the CAF. That’s fine, I can apply separately, but does this me an you only get 5 schools or still 6? (sorry, that’s probably a daft question)
  • Paddington academy and St. George’s we were really close to the cut off. Live 0.61 miles away and cut off was 0.63/ live 0.78 and cut off 0.82. I read that this years admissions was a low birth year and haven’t managed to track down previous admissions yet. Is naming 2 schools with really close cut offs ok or should we stick to one?
  • Harris St. John’s Wood, it’s been mentioned Harris academies are a bit draconian and I seen a thread somewhere about this which I will go and read. Is anyone able to shed some more light on the Harris academies though please?
  • It’s been mentioned londons religious/faith schools are quite religious/take it seriously. I know St. George’s and st Augustine’s select on religion but also Paddington academy and Westminster city boys have a Christian ethos. Is this more ‘light touch’ than the schools that select on religion or about the same?
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Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 14/09/2023 17:41

@Needmorelego wow! This is amazing! How is this even possible? I’m actually shocked such a think like this exists! This doesn’t exist in other parts of the country. Thank you so much for sharing.

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Needmorelego · 14/09/2023 17:39

@CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal from the Transport for London website.

I really don’t understand the secondary school admissions - please demystify this for me.
I really don’t understand the secondary school admissions - please demystify this for me.
Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 14/09/2023 17:39

YukoandHiro · 13/09/2023 09:04

I'm glad you posted this OP. I am in London with a child only in Y2 but already I'm getting anxious as we've moved into an area with no school in which would be included by distance. And now I've no idea how to go about it.

Nearest school is amazing but insanely catholic and requires mass attendance forms so no chance.

Lots of kids on our road seem to go into another borough using an aptitude test.

I don't even know where to start.

This is what I did, you will obviously have your own priorities for sifting and sorting but hopefully how I approached it will help you in some way.

I went on the find and compare schools website, filtered for academies and maintained schools which were mixed or boys and wrote a list of every school in 3 miles and the distance it said it was from our address. It was a long list. I think there were more schools on it than the whole of the county we used to live in!
I then went through the appropriate admissions booklets (I figured out the find and compare website tells you which borough the schools are in) - that was an education, not just in admissions, but geography of London boroughs. I knew there must be some benefit of all of this.
Next I wrote down next to each school on the list the cut off distance in the distance category and whether a SIF or banding test was required. Any we were 0.5 miles out of cut off I crossed straight off (thanks @OhCrumbsWhereNow for this tip - I applied it to all schools in the end not just the faith schools)
I then tidied up/rewrote the list and went through it using Google maps to look at journeys. I assumed all the schools started at 0830 and wrote down the journey times. Anything over 30 min walk was looked at for busses and anything with more than one bus was straight away crossed off. I looked over the list and a couple were crossed off which were over 45 min bus journey. We’ve ended up with a list with the longest bus journey (door to door) being 38 minutes and the longest walk being 29 minutes. I would have expected DS to do a 35 minute walk to school (assuming no dawdling) at out old house so I think that’s a reasonable distance/time.

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Needmorelego · 14/09/2023 17:36

@CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal if a child has the 11-16 Oyster Zip card buses are free and tube/train/DLR are discounted. The card costs £10 (I think) and is valid for the whole 5 years. It is for use by that child only and has a photo and their name.
If it's only used for buses you don't have to put any money on it at all.

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 14/09/2023 17:34

Well my plans for naming the 6 closest schools soon went out the window. Last night I digested all of the information on this thread and today spoke to a few parents at the school gates. This afternoon, armed with all this information, the find/check a school website, Google maps and borough booklets I embarked on the first admissions trawl I have ever done and emerged 2 hours later with a short list. It’s thanks to you all that I managed it. I wouldn’t have managed without you. Thank you so much for everything so far.

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Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 14/09/2023 17:33

@Needmorelego - how is bus travel free? Don’t you have to pay to top up the oyster?

@BettySundaes - extremely helpful. I followed this in my own little way and it has helped me create a short list.

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ScarletWitchM · 13/09/2023 18:54

London does have catchments to an extent that if your top choices of schools are over subscribed then they will use the various checklist to decide who gets in and last of that is proximity. We missed out on all our DD choices as we moved house and she got a place at the closest school with vacancies.

seems like you’re looking at not just the local comps though so a different set of rules for public and grammar schools

BettySundaes · 13/09/2023 18:31

Here's what I did, albeit with a bit more time than you have. Decide how far you think is acceptable for your child to commute, if you are fairly central in London you no doubt have good transport connections and children criss-cross the city in all sorts of ways. Draw that on a map and see what boroughs it contains. Then go to each Borough website download the booklet and look at the list of schools. Decide your priorities: distance, co-ed, faith etc. Look at admissions criteria, if its your first child and no other extenuating circumstances then in the main last distance is going to be your main criteria but a number of schools have places for talented pupils in sports, art, music etc so if you think you have a shot at these you need to find out when entrance tests will be held.

After desk research the main thing is getting dates to view the schools, which will all be coming up fairly soon as deadlines for applications is end Oct

There's a lot of help yo be had here so do return if you want to ask local area specifics.

Thighdentitycrisis · 13/09/2023 18:21

Also with banded schools you have more chance of getting in if your child’s ability is above or below average

Needmorelego · 13/09/2023 18:14

@CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal don't forget that when looking at schools if they aren't walking distance check if your child can actually get there. Is the school on a bus/tube/train route? Would they be able to get one bus or would they have to change several times? Remember bus travel is free (with an Oyster Zip Card) but tube and train isn't so you have to account for paying for transport.
There's no point applying for a school that is impossible to actually get to.

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 17:44

MarchingFrogs · 13/09/2023 17:30

Somebody commented upthread that you should consider whether a school has a sibling link, so that you don't have to go through all this again next time.

PLEASE do not interpret this as meaning that your younger DC will just be allocated a place at the same school, without you having to apply for it. I mean, hopefully you won't have done, but if I had 50p for every parent whose response to the question at their school appeal Why didn't you apply on time? is 'I didn't think I had to, because his / her sibling is already there'.... as the saying goes

Don’t worry, I am aware of this. Application paperwork might have been a formality in the past but know that each child needs a separate on time application.

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Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 17:43

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 13/09/2023 17:29

Looking at the Westminster brochure, there are some faith schools where it is probably pointless applying unless you have either gone to church weekly for last 5 years and can back it up, or you live practically next door. If you're over 0.5 miles then don't risk wasting a space.

Some faith schools offered places to all applicants - which suggests they were not high up on anyone's list of preferences. You may like the school but worth asking why they are able to offer everyone who wants one a place.

Show quote history

Like I said, I need to look into policies properly, but really appreciate what you’ve said and for the advice.

I think I need to make a list of all the schools and just go through crossing them out if we wouldn’t have got a place and see what we are left with.

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OhCrumbsWhereNow · 13/09/2023 17:37

I would avoid faith schools in that case - they tend to be much more heavy on the religion in London that in places where they just happen to be the local school.

Just go for your closest decent co-ed comprehensive. If you have a view on liberal v draconian when it comes to discipline and rules then watch that. Harris has a reputation for being strict.

I'm on the opposite view point and targeted specific schools with specialisms for DD and she does a very long commute (but thinks it's worth it even after 4 years of early starts).

Original poster
CultureShockInTheSameCountryIsReal · 13/09/2023 17:34

Marisquita · 13/09/2023 16:55

I linked to Camden’s webpage upthread.

There are certainly “dead cert” schools in your general area. E.g. so far as I know, neither Marylebone Boys’ (single-sex, Westminster) nor Haverstock (co-ed, Camden) has been oversubscribed in any recent year.

This is really great to know. Thank you.

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