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Original poster

Cheating admission system

160 replies

Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 18:31

Prepared to take a battering here, but interested to know what others would think.

Two years ago I moved towns to try to be able to get a better standard of high school for my dd who is now in y 6. We don’t live in a part of the country where selection is a thing, although she’s bright and I think she’d pass 11+ given the opportunity. Private education is out of my reach financially.

I’m a Christian who has always attended ce church, even before I had dd. Dd is baptised. There is a brilliant ce state school in a small neighbouring town to where I live. I couldn’t afford to buy there. I researched this school’s admission policy and aside from the usual looked after children, medical needs and children of staff it went like this:

1 children living in the parishes v close to school (where I couldn’t afford to buy) with proof of church attendance

2 children living in a few named parishes slightly further from school with evidence of church attendance (I bought in one of these parishes)

3 children in the nearby parishes with no church attendance

4 children further away with no church attendance (I’m pretty far away given how oversubscribed this school is)

anyway I did a freedom of information request before buying my house to ask on the most recent cohort where the last admitted child came on the criteria and it was criteria 3, meaning me being criteria two would have got dd in that year. I’m aware things change year on year but it gave me the general picture.

Now it’s time to apply and the criteria for the next intake has been amended. It now goes

1 nearby children with church
2 nearby children without church
3 far away children with church
4 far away children no church

their admission booklet shows that this year only one child got in based on 3 far away with church so there’s now almost certainly no way I’d get her a place.

my partners mother owns and rents out a number of houses in the nearby names parishes. This presents an opportunity to rent from her at a very discounted rate (but not easily affordable either) to be living in the right place. If I rented one from her, I literally would move there albeit in the short term as I’d be terrified of getting caught lying but I’m not sure I’d get permission from my lender to let my house out so it may stand empty. I’ve no idea about renting houses out. I can just about take the financial hit of renting from parters mum but it would not be easy.

honestly, if you had the means to do this (and the motive- there is nowhere close to this school in standards near and no other option for a faith education for her) would you? Or am I scum of the earth for even thinking it.

I recognise the irony in someone looking for a Christian education being so devious btw

OP posts:
Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:20

ChristianCheater · 05/09/2023 19:18

Admit it OP you have no plans to actually live in the rented property you are just going to pretend you are. The admissions process has seen every scam going and will see yours.

If it got me the place, I would. Frankly if it got me the place I’d sell mine and buy again in future.

i just can’t understand where the line is, I mean if I put my house on the market tomorrow and got a buyer the next day and sold up, then rented, how long do I live in the rental before I stop being a cheat?

OP posts:
Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:18

jlpth · 05/09/2023 19:16

Would grandma help you by allowing you to buy one of those houses for whatever you could sell yours for?

Possibly in theory but the timescale likely wouldn’t work. I’m presuming that’s not against the rules.

OP posts:
ChristianCheater · 05/09/2023 19:18

Admit it OP you have no plans to actually live in the rented property you are just going to pretend you are. The admissions process has seen every scam going and will see yours.

jlpth · 05/09/2023 19:16

Would grandma help you by allowing you to buy one of those houses for whatever you could sell yours for?

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:15

GuardiansPlayList · 05/09/2023 19:10

I am guessing this is some kind of anti-Christian thread OP. Are you genuinely a Christian (I’m guessing not) or just pretending in order to get people going?

I’m afraid I really am a Christian, albeit not a very good one. I only mentioned the religious nature of the school to add to my explanation of why I want it. But to be honest it’s such a good school academically that the academics alone was enough to convince me I wanted it.

i guess it’s just frustrating that at my church and: presumably all the others in the vicinity of this school there’s a literal register for parents to sign to prove they go to church for 12 months before applications and every September you see new faces appear for 12 months then they’re never seen again after school places are allocated. That’s cheating too imo but since nobody can look inside your mind to see if you really believe.

OP posts:
ohboohoo · 05/09/2023 19:13

If you rented out your house and rented in the zone you'd be fine. There is absolutely nothing disallowing people choosing to move into rental to be in the right area. There is nothing precluding renters from owning a home somewhere else. People do this for lots of reasons. Their owned home is not suitable for them to live in for a variety of reasons. Too small, not accessible. Wrong area. Big so they want to capitalise on high rental return.... lots of reasons and they are all fine. How long you have to live in the in zone rental home I don't know.

VeloVixen · 05/09/2023 19:12

It’s dishonest, it’s scummy, it’s depriving another child of a more rightful place. People in my area do this for secondary and it deprived Dd of a place at our preferred secondary school.

GuardiansPlayList · 05/09/2023 19:10

I am guessing this is some kind of anti-Christian thread OP. Are you genuinely a Christian (I’m guessing not) or just pretending in order to get people going?

foolishone · 05/09/2023 19:09

I think it's disgusting but then I also think selective admission is too, especially based on a real or fabricated belief in a particular deity.

It all stinks.

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:09

Nonameoclue · 05/09/2023 19:07

No that's fine. You can move but you have to be able to prove it was a permanent move, so selling your house would cover this. As would renting it out on a long term contract (our local authority requires 24 months I think).
They will want details of your council tax, possibly electricity bills to show someone is actually living at the new address. They will be suspicious if you have kept the old GP, or if your child still attends the old school.

Show quote history

Thank you. Bear in mind though primary school is in a separate town entirely well away from where we live and away from the high school so it already looks bizarre. In fact the primary is in a whole different local authority due to our previous move

OP posts:
Nonameoclue · 05/09/2023 19:07

Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 18:59

Ok, so if I were to sell my home and rent in the area, then is that cheating?

No that's fine. You can move but you have to be able to prove it was a permanent move, so selling your house would cover this. As would renting it out on a long term contract (our local authority requires 24 months I think).
They will want details of your council tax, possibly electricity bills to show someone is actually living at the new address. They will be suspicious if you have kept the old GP, or if your child still attends the old school.

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:07

TeenDivided · 05/09/2023 18:57

You could sell your house and rent. That would be OK.
But you are trying to have your cake and eat it, pretending to move into the community but not doing it properly.

Thanks. So if I sell my house and rent, do they then have any control over where I choose to live in six months/ a year/ after theee years? At what point could I buy another home in the affordable area again without it being against the rules.

I mean dd is in an oversubscribed primary that we got into based on proximity of home to school. After year four we moved well out of catchment, but they didn’t say she had to leave her primary. So how far would she need to get through high school before I was allowed to buy somewhere I can afford?

OP posts:
DanceMumTaxi · 05/09/2023 19:06

I think if you sold your house and lived in the rented house full time you’d be fine, but you’ve left it too late to do this. Applications need to be done by the end of Oct.

ChristianCheater · 05/09/2023 19:06

I would ask myself ‘what would Jesus do’?

Simpledimples · 05/09/2023 19:06

Be careful. People who find out will inform the local authority. I work in admissions. People make fraudulent applications, other parents find out, they tell us. We investigate. Sometimes this takes time and if found to be fraudulent the place will be removed, it could then be after all other places have been filled so you will be allocated whatever they can that is left, which is unlikely to be the highest offer you'd have got if you'd applied legitimately.

I always despair of these parents, how do you explain to your child that their school place is being removed because you acted dishonestly? Sometimes uniform and transition days have taken place, it happens and it is sad to see.

Offers differ each year, I would save yourself a lot of angst and worry and apply correctly and you may get the offer you want.
School places are allocated to local children for a reason.

Sporkle99 · 05/09/2023 19:04

Does everyone get checked? I don't remember anyone asking me for a tenancy agreement. Just added schools and address and got the place (well within catchment). This is just out of curiosity though. OP no I don't think you should do this as you would be depriving another child of the place.

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:03

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/09/2023 18:58

The necessary Council Tax record check when you make your application would be a bit a clue.

Show quote history

Ok thanks. I’m just struggling to understand because if I rented my home out and genuinely lived in the “right area” paying council tax and having all my bank and gp etc registered there, then I literally live there iyswim. Would I have to sell my home for this not to be breaking rules?

OP posts:
Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:00

TeenDivided · 05/09/2023 18:59

Council tax checks would show where you used to pay council tax. Then they would ask what happened to the previous home.
Plus the other children / parents in your DC's primary class would notice and one of them may well report.

The primary class wouldn’t notice. When I moved from my last town I kept dd in her original primary so I drive her fifteen miles to a different town from my town and the high school town. The high school is 20 miles from her current primary

OP posts:
Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 18:59

Ok, so if I were to sell my home and rent in the area, then is that cheating?

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 05/09/2023 18:59

Council tax checks would show where you used to pay council tax. Then they would ask what happened to the previous home.
Plus the other children / parents in your DC's primary class would notice and one of them may well report.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/09/2023 18:58

Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 18:55

Even if tenants were in my owned home? How would they know I was renting the home I lived in nearer to school?

The necessary Council Tax record check when you make your application would be a bit a clue.

MMorales · 05/09/2023 18:58

They've closed this loophole.

So if you get caught they will remove the school place

TeenDivided · 05/09/2023 18:57

You could sell your house and rent. That would be OK.
But you are trying to have your cake and eat it, pretending to move into the community but not doing it properly.

StressedMumOf2Girls · 05/09/2023 18:56

Pretty sure they'll want a proper tenancy agreement too, not just an informal "oh you can live here dear". This is specifically avoid people who rent from their families/friends in order to get into a school.

rockingbird · 05/09/2023 18:56

Good Christian values... 🙄 honestly really is the best policy.