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Original poster

Cheating admission system

160 replies

Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 18:31

Prepared to take a battering here, but interested to know what others would think.

Two years ago I moved towns to try to be able to get a better standard of high school for my dd who is now in y 6. We don’t live in a part of the country where selection is a thing, although she’s bright and I think she’d pass 11+ given the opportunity. Private education is out of my reach financially.

I’m a Christian who has always attended ce church, even before I had dd. Dd is baptised. There is a brilliant ce state school in a small neighbouring town to where I live. I couldn’t afford to buy there. I researched this school’s admission policy and aside from the usual looked after children, medical needs and children of staff it went like this:

1 children living in the parishes v close to school (where I couldn’t afford to buy) with proof of church attendance

2 children living in a few named parishes slightly further from school with evidence of church attendance (I bought in one of these parishes)

3 children in the nearby parishes with no church attendance

4 children further away with no church attendance (I’m pretty far away given how oversubscribed this school is)

anyway I did a freedom of information request before buying my house to ask on the most recent cohort where the last admitted child came on the criteria and it was criteria 3, meaning me being criteria two would have got dd in that year. I’m aware things change year on year but it gave me the general picture.

Now it’s time to apply and the criteria for the next intake has been amended. It now goes

1 nearby children with church
2 nearby children without church
3 far away children with church
4 far away children no church

their admission booklet shows that this year only one child got in based on 3 far away with church so there’s now almost certainly no way I’d get her a place.

my partners mother owns and rents out a number of houses in the nearby names parishes. This presents an opportunity to rent from her at a very discounted rate (but not easily affordable either) to be living in the right place. If I rented one from her, I literally would move there albeit in the short term as I’d be terrified of getting caught lying but I’m not sure I’d get permission from my lender to let my house out so it may stand empty. I’ve no idea about renting houses out. I can just about take the financial hit of renting from parters mum but it would not be easy.

honestly, if you had the means to do this (and the motive- there is nowhere close to this school in standards near and no other option for a faith education for her) would you? Or am I scum of the earth for even thinking it.

I recognise the irony in someone looking for a Christian education being so devious btw

OP posts:
FoodFann · 05/09/2023 20:11

Well, I guess being Christian and attending that all important church doesn’t buy you morals! No support from me OP, I’m disgusted our country discriminates against non-religious families. For you to be playing the system which is already unfairly in your favour, is astounding to me. Disgraceful.

BerriesPineCones · 05/09/2023 20:10

Hopefully you'll get in under no 3. 🤞
I can see it must have felt like the rug being pulled from under you that you moved then they changed the criteria. Or if dc doesn't get in hopefully they'll be happy at the other school

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:07

PuttingDownRoots · 05/09/2023 19:56

Remember 2011/2012 were high birth years. Theres less pressure on spaces in the current Secondary admissions round, so you might get in from further away.

That makes me feel better! I handnt thought of that. I wonder what the birth rate was like for this cohort?

OP posts:
Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:06

BerriesPineCones · 05/09/2023 20:02

You'd only get away with this if they did no checks. It seems the school have decided to let in any local child rather than religious families. Maybe they decided to do this as they felt people were faking religion to get in. Not applicable to you as you are religious

Edited

Yes i hadn’t stopped to think why they’d made the change. That might be it.

OP posts:
LucyMay33 · 05/09/2023 20:05

As an ex admissions officer, there are things we do to check, there are additional documents, it’s not worth it - we will find out (or the school) Faith schools are particularly good at catching those trying to play the system. There are things on the admissions system that will show your actual address and it’ll flag up in our checking. I understand you really want the place but fraudulently going about it isn’t right. You don’t know for certain that your daughter won’t get a place. Imagine cheating, being caught out and place withdraw to find out she would have actually got a place as it reached the criteria she should have been in if you had been honest? If you don’t get a place then appeal and go on the waiting list. How do you know everyone is going to accept? Places do come up and some people have gone down to round 4 of the what we call reconsideration round and then got a place at their preferred school.

BerriesPineCones · 05/09/2023 20:02

You'd only get away with this if they did no checks. It seems the school have decided to let in any local child rather than religious families. Maybe they decided to do this as they felt people were faking religion to get in. Not applicable to you as you are religious

lto2019 · 05/09/2023 19:59

What is the second choice school like? I got my DS into my first choice church school with great results. He was miserable as sin - I moved him in y8 to a good school but one I had not considered . He thrived. Got great results and was happy. I wouldn't rule out the others unless they are terrible.

PuttingDownRoots · 05/09/2023 19:56

Remember 2011/2012 were high birth years. Theres less pressure on spaces in the current Secondary admissions round, so you might get in from further away.

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:54

Inyournightgarden · 05/09/2023 19:51

Surely if you can afford to do this you can afford private?

None of my possible ideas would cost as much as private. Plus there is a younger sibling to think off, so it’s putting two through private. I wish I could afford

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 05/09/2023 19:54

Turning up to church for 12 months isn't cheating in the same way.
Admissions criteria have to be able to be judged, you can't judge belief, only the actions.

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:52

GreenMeanMachine · 05/09/2023 19:45

OP I think you are getting a hard time. I imagine a large proportion of posters piling on are people who probably can afford to buy houses by nice schools. All this “you’ll be depriving some poor child of a place” - they’ve already been deprived by nice middle class families buying round the school and pricing out other families.

However, OP most LAs are very hot on this issue. Have very strict rules on proof of moving. They are particularly alive to people renting for a year etc (but keeping own property).

Thank you. I appreciate that. I was expecting to be told I’m wrong because ultimately I am I guess. I personally don’t think I’m more wrong than people who go to church to get a school place, but wrong is wrong I suppose.

that said, I’m prepared to sell my home if it means I’m not breaking rules. I wish I’d done it months ago now

OP posts:
Inyournightgarden · 05/09/2023 19:51

Surely if you can afford to do this you can afford private?

DavinaTheDreadful · 05/09/2023 19:49

I'd be worried I'd get caught out after being given a place and dd was already settled or something. Maybe they don't do that though?

Could you maybe downsize to a flat and buy near the school?

GreenMeanMachine · 05/09/2023 19:45

OP I think you are getting a hard time. I imagine a large proportion of posters piling on are people who probably can afford to buy houses by nice schools. All this “you’ll be depriving some poor child of a place” - they’ve already been deprived by nice middle class families buying round the school and pricing out other families.

However, OP most LAs are very hot on this issue. Have very strict rules on proof of moving. They are particularly alive to people renting for a year etc (but keeping own property).

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:42

clary · 05/09/2023 19:40

I guess it’s just frustrating that at my church and: presumably all the others in the vicinity of this school there’s a literal register for parents to sign to prove they go to church for 12 months before applications and every September you see new faces appear for 12 months then they’re never seen again after school places are allocated. That’s cheating too imo but since nobody can look inside your mind to see if you really believe

No argument from me there @Anonymousposter17 , but that just serves to show how annoying and frustrating it us when people cheat. I very much dislike the idea of a state school selecting based on religious belief and that's one reason why.

What you need to do is check the school's admission details to see what timescales they require. Impossible now tho surely to sell up and move by 31 October? I suspect even if you have a proper tenancy at MIL's house and can shoe you've let your own for 24 months, you might still lose your place as your house is so near.

Thank you. I’ve had a look and the la website says you’d need to show evidence of “disposal of the old property” and mentions jan 15th as a date by which you can change address details and ask to be considered by. I realistically could sell up by then.

OP posts:
Undecicive · 05/09/2023 19:41

In our area the school will ask foe the tenancy agreement for your rented place, and a proof that you've 'severed ties' with your original house. The later also needs to be a proper AST agreement.
But depending on the schools, I've read on here that parents of children in year 8 have moved back to their original property and the child was removed from the school register.
So research properly.

clary · 05/09/2023 19:40

I guess it’s just frustrating that at my church and: presumably all the others in the vicinity of this school there’s a literal register for parents to sign to prove they go to church for 12 months before applications and every September you see new faces appear for 12 months then they’re never seen again after school places are allocated. That’s cheating too imo but since nobody can look inside your mind to see if you really believe

No argument from me there @Anonymousposter17 , but that just serves to show how annoying and frustrating it us when people cheat. I very much dislike the idea of a state school selecting based on religious belief and that's one reason why.

What you need to do is check the school's admission details to see what timescales they require. Impossible now tho surely to sell up and move by 31 October? I suspect even if you have a proper tenancy at MIL's house and can shoe you've let your own for 24 months, you might still lose your place as your house is so near.

jumphopskip · 05/09/2023 19:37

It depends on the local authority. It is frustratingly very easy in my area to get a school place fraudulently, as all you need to show is a council tax bill and a utility bill. The authority won't pay for any in depth credit checks or do any home visits (costs too much money), even when they're tipped off about fraud. However, the neighbouring authority is more on it and is much more likely to refuse or withdraw a place.

StressedMumOf2Girls · 05/09/2023 19:30

Sporkle99 · 05/09/2023 19:04

Does everyone get checked? I don't remember anyone asking me for a tenancy agreement. Just added schools and address and got the place (well within catchment). This is just out of curiosity though. OP no I don't think you should do this as you would be depriving another child of the place.

Can't speak for every school of course but they definitely checked those who were offered places at DD2's school for this September. It wasn't just tenancy agreements/title deeds but also child's birth certificate, utility bills, driving licence, car insurance documents, bank statements and GP/NHS letters. All had to show our address as proof that we/DD was living here before the cut off date.

LIZS · 05/09/2023 19:27

In some LA a recent move might raise eyebrows and owning another property within a commutable distance, even if rented out, would disqualify you using your second address. You need to read the definition of application address very carefully.

Nonameoclue · 05/09/2023 19:27

Your local authority admissions section should have details, or the school website. Some school require you to move X months before you apply, others by October 31st. How long you have to remain may also be explained. You can always ask if it's not explained.

MrsElsa · 05/09/2023 19:26

A friend of mine did this. She sold her house. At point of school application going in she hadn't even completed the sale. Sale completed, she took a STC 6 month rental in catchment and sent the details to the admissions authority. She then set about buying another house (out of catchment!) School started. Child attended. Before end of autumn term she had moved into the new purchased house. Cost her in solicitor's fees, stamp duty, moving fees etc. But she has not been "found out". Absolute brass balls on that woman. Some peoope will go to mad lengths to play the system and honestly as I get older I think, why not. No reward for sitting quietly like a good girl.

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 19:25

ChristianCheater · 05/09/2023 19:23

i just can’t understand where the line is, I mean if I put my house on the market tomorrow and got a buyer the next day and sold up, then rented, how long do I live in the rental before I stop being a cheat?
Go on the website and read the rules, it’s all there in black and white.

Which website please?

OP posts:
ChristianCheater · 05/09/2023 19:23

i just can’t understand where the line is, I mean if I put my house on the market tomorrow and got a buyer the next day and sold up, then rented, how long do I live in the rental before I stop being a cheat?
Go on the website and read the rules, it’s all there in black and white.

onlylovecanhurtlikethis · 05/09/2023 19:20

My children's catholic school are doing home checks this year presumably to not only check from a welfare point of view but also to confirm that children are living where the parent says they are 😂