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Original poster

Cheating admission system

160 replies

Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 18:31

Prepared to take a battering here, but interested to know what others would think.

Two years ago I moved towns to try to be able to get a better standard of high school for my dd who is now in y 6. We don’t live in a part of the country where selection is a thing, although she’s bright and I think she’d pass 11+ given the opportunity. Private education is out of my reach financially.

I’m a Christian who has always attended ce church, even before I had dd. Dd is baptised. There is a brilliant ce state school in a small neighbouring town to where I live. I couldn’t afford to buy there. I researched this school’s admission policy and aside from the usual looked after children, medical needs and children of staff it went like this:

1 children living in the parishes v close to school (where I couldn’t afford to buy) with proof of church attendance

2 children living in a few named parishes slightly further from school with evidence of church attendance (I bought in one of these parishes)

3 children in the nearby parishes with no church attendance

4 children further away with no church attendance (I’m pretty far away given how oversubscribed this school is)

anyway I did a freedom of information request before buying my house to ask on the most recent cohort where the last admitted child came on the criteria and it was criteria 3, meaning me being criteria two would have got dd in that year. I’m aware things change year on year but it gave me the general picture.

Now it’s time to apply and the criteria for the next intake has been amended. It now goes

1 nearby children with church
2 nearby children without church
3 far away children with church
4 far away children no church

their admission booklet shows that this year only one child got in based on 3 far away with church so there’s now almost certainly no way I’d get her a place.

my partners mother owns and rents out a number of houses in the nearby names parishes. This presents an opportunity to rent from her at a very discounted rate (but not easily affordable either) to be living in the right place. If I rented one from her, I literally would move there albeit in the short term as I’d be terrified of getting caught lying but I’m not sure I’d get permission from my lender to let my house out so it may stand empty. I’ve no idea about renting houses out. I can just about take the financial hit of renting from parters mum but it would not be easy.

honestly, if you had the means to do this (and the motive- there is nowhere close to this school in standards near and no other option for a faith education for her) would you? Or am I scum of the earth for even thinking it.

I recognise the irony in someone looking for a Christian education being so devious btw

OP posts:
Puffthemagicdragongoestobed · 05/09/2023 21:05

@Anonymousposter17 yes we did buy. Still there nearly four years later.

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 21:05

Does anyone know if sibling preference applies in applications after year seven? Ds is in year 4, so if I legitimately sold and rented in the right area, and ds got in, would dd be more likely to get in if a space were available in future?

OP posts:
ReadRum · 05/09/2023 21:03

ZooMount · 05/09/2023 21:01

I think there's a high birth rate for this year 6 too. Don't worry op I don't think you're being dishonest, you're just trying to do what's best for your child. At least you are trying to play within the rules and not just lying which is what some people do. I do think you will need to sell your house though. I don't think there are any rules about renting for a short while and then moving away, but if you move back into a house you already own then that would seem fraudulent.

It’s not within the rules in most places. If you own a property and rent another you are obliged to use the address of the owned property

ZooMount · 05/09/2023 21:01

I think there's a high birth rate for this year 6 too. Don't worry op I don't think you're being dishonest, you're just trying to do what's best for your child. At least you are trying to play within the rules and not just lying which is what some people do. I do think you will need to sell your house though. I don't think there are any rules about renting for a short while and then moving away, but if you move back into a house you already own then that would seem fraudulent.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/09/2023 20:57

ReadRum · 05/09/2023 20:51

Don’t do anything and stay in your current house. Have faith. If it’s God’s will, surely she’ll get in?

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I'd love to be able to say that to the fraudulent applications, the not so subtle attempts at bribery and coercion and outright rages I've experienced over the years.

Yeah, wealthier families game the system. That's what they do - it's one of the reasons that faith schools prioritise evidenced faith, as that isn't as dependent upon family income (RC schools in particular tend to be far more diverse and with a significant number of disadvantaged students even when they're located in extremely expensive and mostly white middleclass areas). But the government wanted distance to be the final tiebreaker, which still benefits the sharper elbowed with deeper pockets.

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:55

BusJam · 05/09/2023 20:53

OP, schools can’t just change the admissions order. Did they properly consult? I think that if they wanted to change entry for 2024, the consultation should have been completed in January this year. But it sounds like you are just finding out now

They must have consulted, just not me lol. Basically I checked 2.5 years ago or more when I first started looking to move. In the time since I’ve not looked again. My own stupid fault but I checked what I could at the time and moved on that basis

OP posts:
ReadRum · 05/09/2023 20:54

But surely in this case it’s Satan whispering in your ear, not God sending you a helicopter or whatever version of that story you are thinking of

BusJam · 05/09/2023 20:53

OP, schools can’t just change the admissions order. Did they properly consult? I think that if they wanted to change entry for 2024, the consultation should have been completed in January this year. But it sounds like you are just finding out now

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:52

ReadRum · 05/09/2023 20:51

Don’t do anything and stay in your current house. Have faith. If it’s God’s will, surely she’ll get in?

Have you never read that meme/ cartoon story of the vicar in a flood?

OP posts:
ReadRum · 05/09/2023 20:51

Don’t do anything and stay in your current house. Have faith. If it’s God’s will, surely she’ll get in?

roarrfeckingroar · 05/09/2023 20:51

I don't really understand why people think this is such an immoral thing to do.

House prices are higher near good schools. Ergo children from more affluent families are more likely to get a place. Is that right? Is it any more morally correct than someone jumping through massive hoops to help their child?

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:50

roarrfeckingroar · 05/09/2023 20:45

I would do it

I think more people would than would care to admit it, if the alternative schools were bad enough

OP posts:
Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:48

Puffthemagicdragongoestobed · 05/09/2023 20:45

We moved close to a desirable secondary school when my son was in year 5. When we applied for secondary the council asked us for proof of sale of our previous property, to verify we had definitely moved out. This way they tried to stop people from taking short term rentals near schools, without ever intending to properly leave their family home.

Out of interest, did you buy near the desirable school?

OP posts:
Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:47

ChristianCheater · 05/09/2023 20:41

I don't think buying a house & moving to get into a school is immoral (it's within the rules). I think renting for a while to get into a school (or pretending to) & then moving back to where you came from is immoral (& not within the rules)

I agree.

fair enough and I’m sure you’re right and that it’s my frustration with the system that’s making me so fed up and considering extreme things to get her a place.

I wonder though, surely I’m not the only one who has felt this way. Most replies say I’m a disgrace for thinking it, so what are all the other mners doing? Putting up with substandard schools? Living in some marvellous town where all schools are great so it’s fine? Lucky enough to have bought in the right place well in advance of application time?

OP posts:
Puffthemagicdragongoestobed · 05/09/2023 20:45

We moved close to a desirable secondary school when my son was in year 5. When we applied for secondary the council asked us for proof of sale of our previous property, to verify we had definitely moved out. This way they tried to stop people from taking short term rentals near schools, without ever intending to properly leave their family home.

roarrfeckingroar · 05/09/2023 20:45

I would do it

ChristianCheater · 05/09/2023 20:41

I don't think buying a house & moving to get into a school is immoral (it's within the rules). I think renting for a while to get into a school (or pretending to) & then moving back to where you came from is immoral (& not within the rules)

I agree.

Nonameoclue · 05/09/2023 20:40

I don't think buying a house & moving to get into a school is immoral (it's within the rules). I think renting for a while to get into a school (or pretending to) & then moving back to where you came from is immoral (& not within the rules).

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:37

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/09/2023 20:31

Theoretically (or theologically), attending Church for x period at least gives the religious organisation that is partially funding the school (as they still get stung for things like, oh, stumping up to replace roofs made of shit concrete when the LA has refused for years to consider it) an opportunity to influence the soul of the attendees.

But flexing financial advantage to benefit from an ethos that includes ahem honesty? People don't really tend to be keen on that
.

Show quote history

Ok point taken.

that said, everybody seems to agree that if I’d bought a house next door to the school two years ago when I last moved, I wouldn’t be immoral, even though I’d have been buying the house solely to get into the school. So it’s ok to buy a house to get into a school as long as you do it well in advance of the application. But if I were to go to the extreme of selling my home now, and renting near the school to get a place, that is immoral.

I mean, buying a house to get into a school is what I did in the first place. The rules just changed and my house is no longer located high enough up the pecking order.

OP posts:
Talkwhilstyouwalk · 05/09/2023 20:33

I'd do it. Not dishonest because at time of applying you would be meeting the criteria.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/09/2023 20:31

Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:21

Genuinely curious, do you feel the same about people who go to church for a year to get into a school? Or is it because I’m leveraging financial privilege (albeit my family’s not my own). If I’d had an extra 100k two years ago and had bought near the school then would you think I’m immoral?

Show quote history

Theoretically (or theologically), attending Church for x period at least gives the religious organisation that is partially funding the school (as they still get stung for things like, oh, stumping up to replace roofs made of shit concrete when the LA has refused for years to consider it) an opportunity to influence the soul of the attendees.

But flexing financial advantage to benefit from an ethos that includes ahem honesty? People don't really tend to be keen on that
.

foolishone · 05/09/2023 20:30

@Anonymousposter17 not answering for the other poster but personally I am against faith schools and other selection criteria full stop. It only serves to worsen inequality.

ChristianCheater · 05/09/2023 20:28

OP so are you actually going to move out of your family home and live in the rental and then either rent your old home out or sell it?

Is the rental empty at the moment?

Have you changed your mortgage to one where you can rent the property?

Original poster
Anonymousposter17 · 05/09/2023 20:21

FoodFann · 05/09/2023 20:11

Well, I guess being Christian and attending that all important church doesn’t buy you morals! No support from me OP, I’m disgusted our country discriminates against non-religious families. For you to be playing the system which is already unfairly in your favour, is astounding to me. Disgraceful.

Genuinely curious, do you feel the same about people who go to church for a year to get into a school? Or is it because I’m leveraging financial privilege (albeit my family’s not my own). If I’d had an extra 100k two years ago and had bought near the school then would you think I’m immoral?

OP posts:
ShawleyNot · 05/09/2023 20:12

I think you're fine OP. If you actually rent out the house near the school and move there, there is no way the school could prove you don't intend to move there permanently. If it's your address for tax purposes it's your address. If you're willing to actually move house albeit for a year or so then go for it.

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