GCSE Eng grade 5 - worth re sitting for future uni application?

I had no idea a lot of courses at Uni specified a 6 in Eng Lang. I've paid more attention to the fact he was really disappointed in his Eng Lit grade but it seems like I should be grateful he got a 6 in Lang which by going by mocks/classroom work he appeared to be not as good at!

I would say it's a no-brainer to resit. Aside from LSE, as others have said there are other top-tier and other strong unis where the 5 would be a problem.

DS was the 2020 debacle and got given a 5 for GCSE (I bore the world on this but not all CAGS were overly generous. DS was a relative scally in a private school and was largely a grade down, including getting a 6 in the subject he's now doing at uni 🙄)...Anyway back to English, we didn't immediately view it as a problem but looking closely at the good uni requirements, it became clear the 5 was an issue (particularly in the context of the high grades overall). So he then resat Eng in November of Yr 13, with, by his own admission, no work, and got a 6 (annoyingly only a couple of marks off a 7 so some prep world have been worthwhile!) So UCAS will have updated with that revised GCSE grade in the January and he got offers from all his unis - 3 of which had specified they needed a 6.

So my DS' overall grade profile will be lower than yours but even in that context, the resit was definitely worth doing.

The thing is (sorry, going off tangent here from OP), but if pupils were sitting 2019, 2021 and 2022 papers as mocks/question practice, what boundaries could teachers use to assess their marks other than what was published? I presume there was no guidance of '120/200 would have achieved a 7 in 2022, but in 2023 it will be a 5' (or whatever - I've not used actual marks to illustrate). For some subjects, the 2019 boundaries were lower than they were this summer. Add in any subjects that may have had curriculum reform, and really, the teachers were flying pretty much blind, I presume?

And I've got skin in the game on this - DD achieved A star BB at A Level, but was expected A star A star A. Likewise DS came under on a couple of his GCSEs. I don't believe the teachers are to blame.

I can see that being a factor to some extent . Quite a few teachers at our school are early in their career and joined in the last 5 years. From what I gather experienced teachers are more expensive and are leaving the profession in droves so faced with budget cuts you could end up with a larger ratio of less experienced teachers than is ideal.

Possibly many haven't taught anywhere else which I could see might skew the picture of what 'most able' looks like. This is without factoring in the retention issues and the number of supply teachers they've had to use.

Our school doesn't draw from an affluent area, there's pockets of it but overall it doesn't fall into the so called leafy suburbs of state schools. It doesn't have a sixth form and realistically only a smallish percentage of the students end up at university.

The bar set for most able will look different there than it does at some other schools. Which isn't to knock any of our DC's achievements but I know that when DS joins his sixth form college in a couple of weeks his starting point will be towards the lower end of able. A lot of students will be coming from the area's grammar and private schools and also the better performing state schools.

The college has a reputation for excellence so theoretically this is his chance to make the most of a more stable teaching environment and benefit from it but he will have to hit the ground running. It's going to be interesting to see whether the college can get the best out of students that have a similar profile to DS.

It’s more complicated than just moving the boundaries though. The amount of top grades have been reduced back to 2019, which have pushed some papers into 7 and 8 and applied downward pressure onto 6 and 5 so that the distribution curve is aligned.

Two years of inflated grades has also skewed perception of what was needed.

I guess an inexperienced department may not fully understand how 'good' an answer needs to be for higher bands, so may just over-mark in general?

But on the other hand, the fact that the awarding of grades this year (in England) woukd be going back to the 2019 pattern has been out there in the real world media on and off ever since it was announced, let alone in 'education' media. Surely no-one with any involvement in teaching at GCSE A level could have failed to know this?

A department full of less experienced teachers makes sense @Russooooo

(That ^^ was for @TeenDivided btw)

Just thinking about it a bit more, for staff who’ve been teaching for less than five years, this is their first ‘normal’ year of results. With recruitment/retention being what it is, many departments will be made up of predominantly inexperienced staff. Theoretically, there should be a more experienced HOD to pull back those predictions, but it’s not unusual to be promoted within the first 3-4 years. There might not be anyone in the department who knows what a ‘normal’ 7/8/9 looks like, hence over predictions. It’s going to take a few years to fully reset after covid.

@Maneattraction just so you are aware, LSE is 70% international students so the chances of getting in are slim at best.

Which exam board is the English Lang paper? I would go for a November resit purely because it will all still be relatively fresh in his head. But I would probably get a tutor and look at past papers with him now. Go question by question and check the mark scheme to see if he knows what they are looking for and what they award marks for. If there is a narrative have elements of that ready to go, really good descriptions of weather or places. Mine did Educas English Lang whereas I think most do AQA. Mine had 4 narratives already to "produce" in the exam but then Educas has very wide narrative titles like The Choice, The Mistake so easily adaptable.

Knowing what they are looking for using the mark scheme can make a huge difference to grades. As an adult it was easy for me to see this and help Ds understand where the marks come from. Also see the examiner's report on the paper too. Best of luck.

Talk about setting students and their families up to be disappointed!

I’d resit. Those few extra months make a huge difference especially to boys (esp summer born boys).

Look at his paper to see where he missed marks. I agree with PP that there are lots of marks to be picked up on the writing sections ( AQA Eng marker here)

I’ve also said on another thread that I think the issue with English grades this year is not marking but over prediction by teachers.

@TeenDivided Genuinely asking. Why on earth would they use 2022 boundaries when everyone knew we were going back to a 2019 grade distribution?
No idea. We didn’t, but some schools definitely did.

I had a DC who did not click with Eng Lang and Eng Lit but was good at fact-based humanities like History, as well as numerical subjects (possibly like your DS?). Focusing on the mark scheme in Eng Lang was beneficial as they could use their analytical side to engage in 'what do I need to do to accumulate the points'.

Whilst some very competitive Econ courses require a 6 in Eng Lang (as well as stellar A level grades), Econ courses at, say, U of Bath, Birmingham, Exeter, Lancaster, Manchester and Nottingham do not (if I have read the reqs correctly). If he gets his Eng Lit upgraded to a 6 then the door is open to Leeds. So it is important that everything is kept in perspective, particularly if he resits and does not attain a 6 or above.

@Russooooo I’m an English teacher. Over-prediction has been a problem this year because lots of schools used 2022 grade boundaries, but this year’s were closer to 2019.

Genuinely asking. Why on earth would they use 2022 boundaries when everyone knew we were going back to a 2019 grade distribution?

I’m an English teacher. Over-prediction has been a problem this year because lots of schools used 2022 grade boundaries, but this year’s were closer to 2019.

If he chooses to resit, get a breakdown of his marks for each question this time and a copy of his papers (free from edexcel, not sure about other exam boards) and work relentlessly on the skills he got the lower marks for.

For most pupils, cracking the writing section (worth 40 marks on each paper) is key to moving grades up. For others, establishing whether they’re supposed to be analysing or evaluating (and what that means in an English context) is crucial. A decent tutor will be able to support with that, but while you find one (and for the next two weeks before a-levels start), he could already be getting started with Mr Bruff / text books etc.

I hope that helps.

I'd resit and get him a tutor.

I know you may have to declare it and if so I feel if he does well in a resit he could use a line in his PS to address why he chose to do so.

I didn't realise that. That's DS out too if that was somewhere he wanted to study. He got an 8 in Art but a 6 in Lang.

It's kind of annoying. I realise it's probably a highly sought after place and this is how they cut down the numbers. They have all this stuff about widening participation and diversity on the website but even if you have an amazing art portfolio and high art grades you can't apply because you don't have a 7-9 at GCSE English. I suspect that does anything but widen participation.

Yes agree on tutor too, I had a tutor once a week for a term

I hadn't thought of resitting, but might look into it for DD. She got a 6 in language and 7 for literature, but that rules out Glasgow School of Art who want a 7 in language.

In most circumstances I'd say not to bother and focus on the A levels but if he's set on Economics and it's a standard thing to ask for a 6 at GCSE then I think it's worth it.

I agree with others about paying for tutoring for a couple of months to get him back up to speed.

Prepare him for the fact it could be a near miss again though because out of all the subjects English seems the hardest to predict with many of our DC being in a similar situation to your son. I believe Nov resits will have a different set of grade boundaries too.

Would agree with pp, get a private tutor now. Prices will only go up, and availability down... 8 to 10 weeks of intense attention and hard work and they should get up to speed.

We did this covid A level year when marks were teacher given. Dd needed a (2 grades) higher mark in Chemistry. £800, a lot of hard work, and she got her grade and a place at her uni of choice.

If resitting, I'd be tempted to get a private tutor.
Even if the school runs resit sessions, they may well be aimed at getting to the magic 4 grade, not a 6.

(Edit for typo)