Stowe school

It is ironic when the assumption you have made about a perspective is contrary to the case.

@TizerorFizz made a throwaway comment about Oxbridge, you’re the one wanging on about it ad nauseam. No-one else cares.

*pinch

The grounds at Stowe are amazing (my son's county team were based there).

It may be unfair but Stowe has historically had a bit of a reputation for being unacademic with a larger drugs problem than most of its peers. That came from a friend who's a head in the independent sector and another friend who's always worked in private schools.

Things may have moved on so rumours should probably be treated with a punch of salt.

@Mirabai it's not ironic. It's just different perspectives. IMO thankfully Oxbridge are not taking the numbers they were thirty years ago from independents, largely because a much higher number of clever DC are now applying from state schools due to the success of WP initiatives. The independent DC now have much more competition. That is very different from your assertion that it is much easier to get into a good university from a state school. Maybe you should be asking TizerorFizz what the point of bringing up Oxbridge was as 'Oxbridge loves grammars' was her throwaway comment and I don't think anyone had mentioned Oxbridge before that point.

Quite. Not sure what the point of bringing up Oxbridge on a thread about Stowe is.

Well @marmite2023 helpfully posted a link which proved the point.

Of course the top independents are still doing well, but are they taking the numbers they were 30 years ago - no.

Ironically, I’m coming at this from the opposite position to your assumption.

You don't have to care but neither do you have to make glib statements like "No state is state and Oxbridge loves grammars" without any foundation other than dated anecdata.

Do you know what? I simply don’t care. Hopefully the OP doesn’t either. Who goes where nationwide is irrelevant and we were talking about Stowe. Nowhere else other than a Bucks grammar.

Who spoke about the demise of grammars apart from you @TizerorFizz ? The table shows that the independents are still doing just fine with their Oxbridge stats, contrary to the beliefs of some on here.

24 of the state schools on the list are definitely selective. So no demise at all. (I think I’m correct!) Some, like the Hampshire 6th form colleges are giants. This just proves what I thought. The grammars do well. It’s not as if everyone can get into Oxbridge so does it matter?Plus many of those schools are day schools. If you don’t live within reach that's it. Or have catchments if Bucks. My DD got a place at Aylesbury High. On the list but so what? It was not for us.

Here is your answer re. Schools and Oxbridge.

If you scroll down, it gives the mixed picture of state and independent.

https://www.keystonetutors.com/news/oxbridge-which-schools-get-the-most-offers#

@MisschiefMaker Its not fair to say better off Dc do not work. DD2 attended another school MN parents would not look at. Many DDs didn’t need to work in a career, but they did actually work at school. Their results were pretty good and they often went to very decent universities. I found the DDs pleasant and fun. They were not hugely academic, like my own DD, but they worked. My own DD worked very hard at her A levels to get high grades.

What some then don’t need to do is compete in the jobs market. They have family jobs lined up or do a bit of low level PR, event management or pursue their career in art or fashion because parents can get them noticed! We found many parents had very high flying careers and took the pressure off their DCs.

At schools like Stowe this is not a majority and, as it has day pupils, it’s a different mix. I’ve yet to see an expensive boarding school where every pupil gets an outstanding job. Some simply do other things because they can. It doesn’t mean they don’t work at school or are a nuisance. They are often really nice young people and they don’t affect what other DC decide to do. It’s not catching!

but many parents there are rich so DC don’t all need elite careers.

This quote from @TizerorFizz sums it up pretty well for me and echos my own experience of it (although I did not attend Stowe myself I am very close to both friends and family who did).

It's all well and good for the children who never need to worry about financial security, but if your DS isn't from this sort of background then this is a really risky environment for him to be exposed to imo. The toxic combination of loads of money, without the respect for hard work and pressure to succeed that you get in high achieving public schools, might rub off on him. I would prefer a more down to earth grammar school option myself.

Although I take your point that if the child in question is a day student then there is greater opportunity for their parents to mitigate the impact from their peers.

There's a lot of talk about Stowe historically not being academic, but it is a fact that currently, unlike the majority of similar schools, they spend 3 years doing English Language GCSE instead of 2 (the course is designed to be completed in 2 years). I would not want a bright DC at a school with such a slow pace of learning.

Ok. But Westminster is not Stowe. Plus many grammars are in leafy areas and have healthy Oxbridge numbers. Bucks grammars never had loads. In my day - none or one! Has anyone looked at grammar numbers to top unis?Anecdotally holding up I think. Happy to see stats clearly demonstrating their demise. However Stowe isn’t a big hitter for Oxbridge and most there won’t be applying. Other first class unis are available.

No @TizerorFizz . This is the kind of rhetoric spouted by independent school parents whose DC fail to secure Oxbridge places as it helps to believe that the odds are all stacked against them. Yes state school representation has increased in recent years at Oxbridge but it is more a function of the success of widening participation efforts and more clever state school DC applying than anything else. If what you say is true then schools like Westminster wouldn't be getting any Oxbridge places and if you look at the numbers they are still really quite healthy. I find such assertions really insulting to state DC who are more than worthy of their places at high ranking universities.

No. State is state and Oxbridge love grammars. However if dd isn’t bothered about that it’s not important. You will get somewhere, even usa.

Contextualisation is a lot broader than just state/indie divide. Many top universities focus on a mix of contextual considerations and a grammar school DC from an affluent background is going to be pretty much in the same boat as the DC from a selective independent school.

Not my experience. Grammar school feeds the state school stats at the end of the day.

@Mirabai it is not true that it will be a lot easier to get into a good uni from a state school if the state school in question is a high performing grammar. Not very different from applying from a selective independent.

My off the cuff response would be that I would be far more inclined to keep her at the grammar for many reasons but partly because it will be a lot easier to get into a good uni from a state school. However, her preference is very important. She seems to have set her heart on it so I would support that. She can always rethink for A level.

Thanks for your answer @TizerorFizz - I appreciate the insight 😊

@Bedsmum66 Huge apologies!!! I got the wrong poster.

@Jellycats4life I think it’s a nuanced all round education at private schools. Not all grammar Dc succeed and some have been over coached and aren’t happy.

Obviously it’s facilities but it’s more than that: or why pay? I didn’t want DD to be just one of many DDs at a grammar. We went for a smaller school so she could actually join in and not be balloted out. To have a chance even if she wasn’t the best. I wanted inspirational speakers, visiting musicians, opportunities for playing, laughter, fun, loads of clubs and activities as well as some academics! I wanted her to find out what she could do and enjoy and get encouragement to do just that. I didn’t want an exam factory and loads of Uber competitive parents. Many boarding school parents are fairly laid back.

Meeting people who could help her in life wasn’t on the agenda. Never expected it. I think you get that more in boys schools where high flying old boys come back in and there’s more networking. Girls seem to do less of this. I would now expect it though.

I like to think DD would have flourished and enjoyed most schools but she really wanted the one she went to. Long term she’s made amazing friends and, as adults, they are still very close. They have no bearing on her career at all but they still support each other. Also we have met a lot of families who have never set foot in a state school. Nor their ancestors. I guess for them it’s a club.

we felt that the outcome of any academic attainment would likely be the same irrespective of which school she goes to but felt that Stowe would provide an all rounded education (although she’s not sporty at all), mentoring and pastoral care and instill a sense of confidence in our DD, which she lacks at present

@Legalbeagle12 This part of your first post jumped out at me and it seems like it’s the crux of your dilemma - you feel your daughter will do great academically wherever she goes, so switching to a less academically pushy environment wouldn’t be an issue for you.

But - and this is going to sound snarky but I promise I’m genuinely curious - you’ve mentioned the phrase “well rounded education” (and it’s been mentioned by others too) in relation to Stowe but I don’t know what this means. It sounds like a euphemism for something only private schools can provide but I’m not sure what it is. And it can’t just be sporting facilities because it sounds like your daughter isn’t particularly interested. So what is it?

Clearly, I have no experience of private schools but, like you, I have a daughter who started at a grammar school last week so I have a good idea of what a grammar school offers.

Do you feel like having Stowe on your daughter’s future CV would give her an edge or some kudos that a grammar wouldn’t?