How accurate was the impression you formed of senior school, before your kids started?

I agree with @TizerorFizz Unfortunately you do need to be a little snobby but balanced. A good school will have a good balance of the poorer and wealthier kids. Those from professional backgrounds and those not. If you can see a school is catering well to both, than you're in good hands.
Unfortunately overall it's very much luck. My DDs school was incredible up until the SENCO left in Dec 2021. The school has a large number of EHCPs (around 15 per year) plus about 20% on SEN register so huge numbers. Since the new senco came in, the SEN provision has nose dived and the whole school setup has changed. The school has an incredible reputation for SEN, but this is not current. We're moving DD to another school in Sept, mid GCSEs as it got so bad. You need to just be vigilant and accept that things in schools at the moment aren't great, and you have to have realistic expectations. Generally speaking if your child has regular teachers, friends and is happy and supported at home, they'll do fine.

@Orangeinmybluelightcup Without being snobby, look at the parents. Dc tend to be a chip off the old block. Are DC mostly looking happy and reasonably well presented when they come out of school? Can you find out if professional parents use a school? Is it an area with uni lecturers living in it? Sure fire won’t be a bad school in that area. What about cost of housing? Doesn’t always follow that leafy lanes have better schools, but around me it does.

If teachers are around on an open day, do they seem enthusiastic? Do classrooms inspire? Look at all the school policies. Are they reasonable? Could Dc live with them? What about sport, music, art and drama? Are they flourishing or more of less non existent? Exam results will tell you a lot but check the harder subjects. Look at progress for your DCs group - lower, middle, higher. Look at numbers in each. If Dc are higher attaining, are there plenty of other higher attainers? It might be old info but schools do not change that much in 3-4 years . Are there a good range of subjects at gcse?

Do heads stay? Are they forever advertising for staff?

Lastly, listen to other discerning parents you know. Where did other dc go and did they do well? Were they well supported and encouraged by the school? Unfortunately (or fortunately) schools change. It’s better to get one on the up then one sliding down.

I was completely bought by their sales technique.

Ds didn't even last year 7.

He went to a much better school after that and I regret ever sending him to the first one and will never forgive myself for buying into what they said before he started and after he started and in response to issues I raised.

Don't listen to others. Park opposite the school at home time. Watch the behaviour as they come out. Sit in a coffee shop round the corner and watch at home time. Speak to the local shopkeepers.

My daughter now goes to the "best" school in our area.......its shocking. The kids are feral, the teachers lazy, the buildings are old and tired and they seem to actively do whatever they can to make school dull.

My son started at the "worst" school, horrid reputation. Its AMAZING!!! Smaller class sizes as no one wants their kids to go there, lots of investment, teachers really seem to care, kids are more well behaved, parents more involved. I'm totally sending my 3rd child there!!!

Seems like the good school runs off its reputation, and acts like it no longer needs to put the work in.

Paying opens up options the majority do not have.

I’ve also come across cheer leaders at schools within the parent body. However a change of parents and a change of SLT, particularly the head, can make a massive difference in many schools, state or independent. Many parents who are happy don’t like change for no good reason. This is often the case in private schools. State schools can be on a mission to improve.

Around me, the grammars all converted to become academies. I can assure you, no teachers left due to that. They are not part of MATs so set their own agendas, so to speak. All have continued to be successful. So who is running a school matters.

The state school place (1300 pupils) we were offered, DS went to the taster day and I went along at the end. It was a complete shambles, 300 10yos, kids in carparks, kids in the road, kids with no idea where they were going. Not impressed. And their exam results were mediocre although ofsted reckoned they were good. I thought they were terrible. That was in late 2018

The school ds finally chose, 3 taster days over a year for DS, one open day for me. It's been great so far. DS going into year 11 now, on track for 10 good grades and happy. Wants to stay to do A'levels. It's a small non-selective, not very fashionable independent but the teaching and the pastoral care have been outstanding. They dealt with lockdowns without breaking stride.

The first school had an Ofsted inspection last year, Ofsted said the school had no idea who was on site, the children weren't safe, bullying rife, downgraded to requires improvement, governors resigned, handed over to a different trust etc. So feel better about not letting DS go with his friends.

I was terrified of dd1 going to our local comp as some kids were horrible to her at primary school. It was such a big improvement for her though. She made a lovely group of friends and the cool ones never bothered them. She's now at university

Exactly

I second this. There is a PTA in a local oversubscribed school that actually threatens legal action against negative comments on Facebook. It's a pretty insane bubble and you'd think the school is faultless reading anything online.
I would be very wary of a school where you can't seem to find anything negative. Every school will have negatives, you need to find them and decide whether that's something you can live with or not.

Assuming that they are objective. In my local school there is a some sort of club that keeps babbling " aaamazing school" as if they were Stepford wives. And when you mention frequent bullying and results below UK average they jump at you with their claws out.

Obviously I can't comment on every school, but lots of teachers leaving for any reason will mean the school will likely struggle to fill every vacancy- if more leave mid year next year, this will get even worse. It will be very hard to tell from the outside if a school is struggling to recruit, even current parents may not know. But when a particular department is short staffed it can cause all sorts of problems, and then more teachers leave etc- it likely will mean inconsistent SEN support because the teachers will be inconsistent. Becoming an academy can also cause more teachers to leave etc and lots of change.

I'd imagine other parents will be considering the small school, so it may not necessarily be no local friends. Small schools can have their downsides too, but I think it's your best bet for your oldest DD?

@Orangeinmybluelightcup The key element is for DD to have a plan and that all teachers are aware of her needs. Lots of DC won’t have laptops but, again, knowing what she needs, or doesn’t need, is key.

Open day gave a great impression of school - what I would say that if things are going OK the amount of interaction you would have with the.secondary school compared to primary is v limited - so having kids in 2 schools isnt necessarily a massive problem. sounds like for you older one dyslexia support is going to be key - in my observation SEND support can vary a lot and doesn't necessarily correlate with other other things in a school

Sorry I don't think I've answered correctly.

I thought there would be more homework. I thought they would use laptops instead of pen and paper.

DD is dyslexic and will start Y9. I only recently found out they haven't given her a coloured overlay.

Her timetable changes lots.

The times she sees her tutor, has break and lunch have changed a few times too.

I'm autistic and I couldn't cope with that.

I found change of leadership makes the biggest impact. It sets the tone for everything. Recruitment, behaviour, academic expectations etc.

I 100% agree with @TizerorFizz on this point. DD2 went to a Secondary Modern which did not have a great reputation shortly before she started. But it had recently acquired a new HT and she put in place a very strong SLT while gently easing out some staff she didn't feel were up to the job.

HT wasn't very popular with the kids because she was strict and had high expectations of them, both academically and behaviourally. And she was strict on uniform and encouraged everyone to look smart and be proud of their school. Some parents didn't like this either, of course, but we felt she did a good job in setting the tone she wanted.

This school used to be one which everyone tried to avoid for their DCs, nowadays it is over-subscribed. The HT is still there so I guess more families brought into her cultural change than didn't…

Mixture I think.

My youngest is year 11 so I've had a fair smack at the school through 3 children.
I was much more nervous, as I went to a small school, whereas dh was more blasé as he went to a large comprehensive.

We chose the school because it was more laid back than the alternative (think detention on 2nd day for being late to a lesson when they'd got lost level strictness) and it is. A lot depended on their head of year. One was brilliant, one was okay and the last, after the first couple of interactions I had I concluded I was best to bypass them, which I generally managed to fairly easily.

I'd say it was similar to the impression/dh I had, despite changing the head of about 20 years part way through.

@Orangeinmybluelightcup I live in a grammar county and very many families have Dc in various schools. They use public transport or school buses to the grammars. At secondary you really don’t go into school much, so as long as you get daily transport sorted, you are ok.

I would be wary of how the small school expects to survive. Partnering with another school might mean lessons on another site? This could also be difficult. Try and investigate further.

So many heads come in and start by changing uniform and smartening up the Dc. Existing pupils don’t like it, but yours won’t know the difference! I would try and judge by attainment and if you think Dc would get a good deal there. Are Dc doing well in GCSEs and 6th form? Are they taking real steps to improve SEN provision? What’s the evidence for this? I can see it’s difficult but do you trust this Head to improve the school? Clearly they need to and hopefully better behaviour will help. Would DD be ok with this?

I think DD's school gave a fair impression of itself on open days.
As she was going from a tiny rustic primary to a large, selective school I thought she would find the transition hard - and she did.
The school has delivered an excellent education and has some brilliant teachers. But some of the behaviour was poor at times - especially in yr 7 & 8. Marked improvement by the following year and virtual personality transplants by yr11. Maturity is a wonderful thing.
I do get the impression that there aren't enough teachers though and the really good, experienced ones are edging closer to retirement or part time working. Not enough younger teachers coming through and the literal fabric of the building is crumbling.

@Orangeinmybluelightcup From what you say, DC1 is not working at the level necessary for a grammar school. DC 2 yes.

I can see your concerns about the nearest school. I think you need to drill down with parents about what they don’t like. The school clearly wasn’t good enough before (RI but for what reasons?) but parents now do not, presumably, like the methods being employed to improve the school. However if that’s no chatting, uniform nitpicking, and what seem like draconian changes, it might not be where Dc thrive.

Im amazed any school can possibly be as small as 500. I assume that’s y7-11 only. 90 a year is normal PAN so do they take lots over PAN? Or are they 120 and have places? I don’t believe 500 on roll in a secondary is viable and must severely reduce subjects and other opportunities. I really would have concerns about this. Presumably you know Dc could get in, hence considering it.

Therefore I definitely would find out more about your nearest school. If they are RI for SEN, then they really will be expected to improve. So I might see if you can meet the SENDCO and ask about provision . Also parents often don’t like change so filter what they say. Are their Dc doing well? Are teachers in place to teach the subjects? Are they doing sport, music or clubs a good school should offer? Can they see any improvements?

Open days, that I went to, were very busy with parents. Hundreds and hundreds of them! So extremely difficult to form an opinion of the Dc in a school at all. However art and specialist room displays, general upkeep of school and friendliness of staff might be worth considering. Plus friends nearby might be worth a lot, but that depends on your circumstances: a car and time to get Dc to friends further away.

My advice...ignore those who talk about a school they dont have kids at.
Only listen to sensible people who do have kids there