Tiffin/Sutton/CRGS

@DavyJane hi who did u go with for preparation?

Good morning!

Hope you are doing well.

I hope its ok to reach out to you for some guidance on 11+ exam tutoring.

Could you please recommend a good 11+ tutoring center? Are there any in Sutton?

I am in Sutton and my DD is in Y4. Its now dawning on me that these exams aren't far off!

Thank you for your time and help!

Have a lovely day :)

Kind Regards

@PinkPanda27

For Tiffin and Sutton you have to live in the catchment to be considered..if you have a daughter then even it has to be so calles Inner Catchment rather than Designated Area

For a boy the best are Wilson &Wallington

Girl or boy? But Richmond/Surrey is Tiffin and Sutton I would say

As poster above says, check dates asap. I believe the CRGS deadline through the CSSE has already passed. If you've already made your entry and are just talking about the difficulties/content of the yest itself then CRGS is a super selective, they have an hours paper for maths and an hour for English (which includes a few verbal reasoning questions.) Check out the 11+ forums for good info on historic data on entry numbers and scores etc. Past papers available through CSSE.

From a Singapore system will properly be used to these kind of exam prep though you probably want to do it ASAP to maximise the chance.

Since you are targeting for this Autumn exam, have you not checked the exam registration requirement, the deadline already passed for some!

OP, while the GCSE state school league table (or attainment 8 score) is not a good measure to tell the quality of the school for your DC, it is always a good indicator of the difficulty of getting in these school in the first place, thus the higher the ranking the more prep/tutor is required.

Based on that with last few years league tables, in London area and surrounding, you can see

QE boys and HBS always at the top, then follow by TGS, Kendrick, Wilson, St Oli and Latymer, Newstead, CRGS, KEGS.

Then Sutton, Tiffin boys, Nonsuch and Colchester etc.

League table definitely sheds some lights on difficulty and odds.

I suggest you don't tutor for these entrance exams Bright children can get in without tutoring. Children who are heavily tutored for the entrance exams often struggle when they get there, or require further tutoring to keep up

I agree with everyone saying this is bad advice.

Even bright kids benefit from a little tutoring - becoming familiar with the more unfamiliar aspects of the tests like verbal and non-verbal reasoning, practising their English and Maths, and getting to grips with exam technique.

Sorry, you’re probably right that my numbers are all out! It was a few years ago and I’m currently ill in bed so probably shouldn’t post any specifics 😜. I may be blending and rounding up the total number for both tiffin schools.

I think @Sodop has the numbers a bit off. There are 180 places for Y7 entry to Tiffin Boys. The number who sit the round 1 test is more like 1500, according to the head teacher. They actively discourage anyone outside the priority catchment from sitting because they have not recruited from outside it in years.

I thought it was - like the girls - about 1800 (roughly) each year, and for 180 places.

3500 kids sit in the tiffin boys exam? Even historically outside catchment is unlikely to get in? That seems to too high to be true? Even superselective like QE boys without catchment will have just over 3000 exam candidates..

There are about 120 places at Tiffin. Around 3500 kids took the test when my son sat. These are extremely competitive schools. Your child needs speed, familiarity, and a high IQ.

Unless at a prep school, it is unrealistic to expect even a hugely bright child to pass without some form of enrichment (even if not tutoring) eg they need to have somehow encountered the whole Y6 maths syllabus before completing year 6.

Once in, they are with a cohort of extremely bright, fast, motivated, high IQ kids… of course: those are the kids that passed.

Re tutoring, if by some fluke, an over-tutored child got in, who isn’t actually naturally quick and able, then it’s a hideous school life ahead, struggling to keep up. Don’t just think about the “prize”, think about the school career that lies ahead. Would a very academic cohort suit your child? Some children like being the “cleverest”. Now they will be just normal in their group, sometimes still shining, sometimes not at all. Sometimes a regular school, with the full range of abilities, or a more nurturing school is better. Plus, Tiffin has now been downgraded in its Ofsted report.

In practical terms: My child practised a paper a week (50 mins type), then this increased to one a day, I think, close to exams, in the autumn. But it was all his choice, and I think that made all the difference. Plus, he went to a very slow paced primary school, with no homework, so this wasn’t on top of loads of other homework.

Perhaps ask a question slightly differently, is one hour a week prep in total (tutor or practice) for 2-3 months enough for a average bright kid to get in school like TGS? That equal to less than 10 mins per day 🤔

My daughter is also starting at Tiffin girls in September. She did have some tutoring from the end of y5 to the exams themselves. It felt unfair not to give her some, frankly, primarily because she had at that point absolutely no experience of timed exams. So as much as anything it's about learning how to prioritise questions, move on quickly if you get stuck, etc etc. That requires practice regardless of how bright the kids are, in my view.

You always hear the odd "well my kid got in with no tuition" but I raise a sceptical eyebrow. I mean, I know someone who claimed that (kid in question didn't get through second round anyway) and it turned out what she meant was "no tutition outside of her private school where they are tutoring her every day for ages in 11 plus exams".

Horror story: she told me she met a girl at the first exam, was making awkward 11 year old small talk and asked her what books she liked reading. Girl in question said "I'm not allowed to read fiction books because my mum says I have to study properly".

>I respectfully disagree that "bright kids will get in without tutoring", this might be the case for areas with lots of grammars but not 2 of the 3 mentioned by OP.

Exactly. Bright kids will not get in without tutoring. These school are incredibly competitive to get in and throught the school duration. There is nothing special about teaching there. They don't have better staff than other schools and they receive less funding per pupil. There are many bright kids in this area. But those schools are not for just bright kids. Most of all the kid needs to be emotionally very resilient and competitive to thrive in those schools

Exactly. It is all down to the speed in the exam

You will not get into Tiffin without some form of preparation. It is extremely competitive and there is an awful lot to do in the time on the exam. Your child will need to practise answering accurately at speed, because even if they get to the answer eventually, they will not score as highly as the kids who get to it faster and therefore complete more questions. That's what it boils down to because loads of bright kids are sitting the test.

That is more than 7 years ago?

Of the three boys that went to Tiffin from my son's state primary, two hadn't been tutored. I think it is easier to get in without tutoring now than it used to be when the papers were purely verbal and non-verbal reasoning rather than English and Maths.

There is a massive tutoring industry, and people do jump on the band wagon. I suppose at least now that the Tiffin exam includes English and Maths the tutoring will have some wider benefit beyond one competive exam.

Neither of my boys applied to Tiffin in year 7 because we didn't want them to go to an all boys school. However, both went to state comprehensives, and then to Tiffin Sixth Form. Both were doing maths amd sciences and were in the top third of their sixth form classes, coming out with A-Star and A grades. So their comprehensive school prepared them just as well for good performance at A Level.

For the greater London grammar area schools (including the outskirts such as CSSE), it is extremely rare to have someone got the place without any form of prep (tutor or practice).

And it is not unusual for family to have their kids sit at multiple 11+ tests even the schools are far apart - Tour De M25.

It's completely normal to tutor for these schools