Highgate wood / fortismere / Aps

@AndAllOurYesterdays That's just living near a secondary school. You'll get this living outside of APS or any of the others too.

@Soma I also mentioned this up-thread I think- our friends also saw a big improvement at KS4. I'm not a fan of Highgate Woods by any stretch but a lot of schools struggle with KS3.

Also interested in experiences of HWS. We live nearby and I've seen some horrendous behaviour of the kids at bus stops and local park. Really horrible stuff but not sure this is just what it's like living near a secondary school. I too have heard it is unambitious from local parents, but the children I know who have gone there and currently in year 7 seem happy.

@StrawberryEater I'm shocked you've not heard anything negative about fortismere! Lots of people grumble about it. Obv less likely to if they've paid through the nose to be in the catchment but still. I actually think Highgate wood is the middle one out of the 3. APS extremely strict, Fortismere extremely relaxed and disorganised and Highgate wood somewhere in between.

I think different schools work for different children. It depends on whether they are more arty or sporty, if they are self motivated or need a bit of a push, how likely they are to consider authority to be boundaries or something to rebel against, etc.

I live relatively close to you but DC in primary so no direct experience. But everyone I have spoken to near me seems to love Fortismere. I have never heard someone criticise it. Whereas the other schools seem to have people who love them or hate them. I get the impression that their views are dependent on the personality of the child and whether the school suits them. It makes me wonder if Fortismere is somewhere in the middle and/or is better at catering to lots of types of children/personalities.

Short answer is no.
Full disclosure, my DC went to / at independent schools, but I have friends and family in the area and know most of the schools apart from Heartlands.

1. Crouch End is a much nicer area than Bounds Green/Wood Green / Ally Pally area.
2. Schools go in cycles. About 10 years ago APS was not popular and had huge catchment area.
3. Some of my Crouch End friends tied themselves in knots with the same question and either sent their DC to HGW or independent school.
4. I think some of the complaints about HGW being unambitious is because so many parents spent years tutoring their DC for independent and selective state schools..
5. Secondary school is a culture shock, especially if your DC has been at one form entry Weston Park or Coleridge with an active parent body.
6. No school is perfect, every school will have issues.
7. The kids we know who left in Yr 9 didn't moved to independent schools, not state.
8. Our friends saw a massive improvement at HGW from GCSE years.
9. We personally know siblings that went to Oxbridge from HGW (if that is important to you.)

@Reginaldperrin honestly I think people bend over backwards for something that is pretty inevitable by the time the kid is about 9. You can tell by then what sort of grades they'll get etc. Obv quality of school does make a big difference but community, happiness and friends make a bigger difference imo.
If you're going to uproot your family for what might not even work and make your kids miserable, is there a point?
I know 2 girls who went through HGW, one is still there, one left to Camden for Sixth form. The teaching apparently gets far better once they hit KS4.

The crouch end to APS/Fortismere catchment migration happens annually. I think this will slow down soon enough with the lower birth rate years going into secondary school. You can see it already with the distances offered at national offer for both secondary and primary. The distances for last child offered are all increasing.
If you do move for APS be clear you understand what you're getting. The school has huge numbers of suspensions/exclusions and it's not for everyone. Not saying it's bad, but it is very, very strict and certainly doesn't suit everyone.

At least a few families in my DS's years moved to get into Fortismere or APS. I would have done too but I just never found a house I liked within the budget and don't really like the area plus then figured out we'd spend over 100k on stamp duty so going private wasn't that much more expensive. To be honest, we've had a lot of stress over schools so part of me does think we should have just moved to have that certainty of a great school and no worries. On the other hand, loads of kids do really well at HGW and I know a kid (admittedly with SEN) who did not do well at APS so it really depends on your child. One thing you cannot deny is that the results at APS are fantastic, in a league of their own really but you will have to move within a few streets to get in which will cost unless you buy a flat. I know one family who brazenly bought a one bed in catchment and pretended to live there whilst keeping their house in Crouch End and never got found out.

Huge issues with toilets in every school atm. All to do with massive decline in behaviour and as schools ultimate duty is to safeguard above anything else, it's a tricky position to be in as toilets are obviously places kids are locking themselves in and aren't easily monitored.

I hear things get better at HWS from KS4 up, but I don't like the way they test (everyone takes the same eg maths test, regardless of sets, and sets are then determined by % you score on that 1 test, so if you're in bottom set, you're not going to have a chance to move up unless you're going above and beyond outside of class)

DS left Highgate Wood last year with 4 A levels - 3 As and an A*. He's very bright but not a genius and there were plenty of other students who did as well as, or better, than him. He had a very good time at the school and made some great friends.
It has some brilliant and excellent teachers and some that are not, but I'm sure that is the same in all schools. It went through a difficult time with its SEN kids last year but the new SENCO has made a huge difference and it seems to have got its act together.
Some of the buildings are a bit grotty (true of Fortismere as well) but it is getting some new and refurbished toilets, and Haringey has 'promised' to rebuild the sports hall in the next few years (I'll believe it when I see it!). It has added more clubs over the last year (finally).
It has a good focus on suporting its students and pastoral care but there are occasional behaviour issues still, although nothing really serious.

Better than Fortismere? The average grades are slightly better at Fortismere but that is more because of its catchment area and the huge number of kids getting tutored (plus tougher criteria to take exams). I doubt my son would have done any better at Fortismere than HWS but we will never know ......but I do believe HWS made him a more rounded person due to its diversity.
Would I move from Crouch End to Muswell Hill to get my child into Fortismere? Definitiely not. Would I move from Muswell Hill to get them into HWS? Ditto.. Both very good Secondary Schools - if you work hard and are committed you can get great results at either.

Hi, I was asked for my personal experience and if you read above I do say it is mixed. It depends how important extra curricular is to you and your child. My daughter does not want to do any extracurricular nor does my son. My son already plays in a football league and did tennis in the local clubs etc. After school clubs has never been a priority. Having said that my son has been in the school football team and won his years tournament with the local schools and recently went on a school trip to Madrid which was the best trip of his life. This is why he is very happy at HWS and it’s our experience. I have a child at APS also so I can give personal insights. My daughter had not been able to get on the trips at APS as they are heavily oversubscribed we have tried for skiing since year 7 and she has never got on. She has just got onto a trip in year 10!! What you read to actual real experience can be very different.

I'm not sure it's correct to say it has lot of very wealth MC kids. Some yes but also lots of kids from poorer backgrounds/estates. It's mixed. The general consensus is that extra curricular at HGW is not good. Very little on and stuff that was on before covid, e.g. trampolining, never restarted. Football very haphazard. APS definitely does more on that front (I know kids who have gone to the US on football trips with the school) and its exam results are a lot lot better. HGW gets 35% 7-9, APS 54%. Not really in the same ballpark. HGW is ok and I think most kids love it there but I would not say it works for all kids.

I dont know where to start! My son is confident and sporty with lots of friends. He has a lot of fun at HWS, it is not as strict as APS. It has a lot of very MC wealthy children from Crouch E - musicians, actors, creatives and liberal parents. It's mixed also in terms of demographics which also means he is street smart which is a good thing. Educationally he is doing well and is worked hard. APS is much much more stricter and about rules which suits my daughter. HWS is more about the kids and has lots of parent kids events - ie Madfest. APS does not have much like that but it has lots of trips and opportunities for extra clubs etc. I would put a shy girl in APS and a cool confident child in HWS! Thats just me!

As an aside, I can say my year 11 son is pushed at HWS. Especially in year 11. He is doing triple science and is predicted 7/8s bu he is very much pushed and had a huge amount of homework and revision. I have another child in APS which is a brilliant but very different school and gets noowhere the amount of homework he does or pressure! Do different strokes for different folks or children! Both very happy children thriving.

I am friends with 2 parents who moved their kids (in year 9) to other local schools. The reason is both cases was that HGW was not ambitious/pushy enough academically. It's happy if you're coasting along with 5s rather than pushing kids towards the highest marks. The aligns with what I've ever from other parents. It's ok if you've got driven, focused and well-behaved kids in the top set, much less so if your kids are lazy, demotivated or get into trouble where they may not do as well as if they went somewhere like APS.

@Mediumred I actually think your experience isn't uncommon. DD has quite a few friends at hws at nlpac and the couple of parents I've spoken to say they saw a significant improvement from GCSEs. KS3 they seem to really struggle with.

Hi, I’d responded to your post back in the summer with a pretty lukewarm assessment of HWS.

DD now in her GCSE year and I’m feeling more positive about it all.

1. they have a very energetic new senco who is also an asst head. We probably haven’t experienced much day to day difference (dd pretty academically able and tends to mask in school so not had a lot of input from them) but it shows they are really throwing resources at it and it should benefit children lower down the school.

2. they started the school year with a massive and out of proportion uniform crackdown but have now asked the children for a uniform survey which should mean a more relaxed approach. think the staff were also fed up trying to constantly enforce the rules.

3. just so impressed with all DD’s passionate subject teachers. Some have really imbued her with a love for their subjects too and even the stuff she isn’t so keen on they have managed to cajole, support and inform the teens so hopefully they will do well.

4. dd probably won’t stay on but lots of children will as they have had a good experience and it’s a strong sixth form.

5. people I know with kids at APS and fortismere also rate the schools so hope your DD is happy wherever she goes.

Children did leave HWS when DD was younger and some of this was related to bullying or a lack of SEN support so I couldn’t say 100% that all problems are ironed out (although for us the school definitely seems to be improving)or it’s that by year 11 everyone has decided they will just stick it out.