Camden School for Girls - HELP!

My biscuit was for use of the term Estate Girls and for the assumption that a child who doesn’t live on an estate can’t possibly be friends with one who does.

Estate here isn’t used as in the Holly Lodge Estate: an incredibly pricey estate near by, a gated community. It’s used as a short hand for social housing. Children who live in social housing can’t possibly have friends who aren’t. or, children who live in large homes couldn’t possibly want to be friends with children whose families live in social housing. It’s not even accurate as Camden has a large proportion of street property social housing. Your DD might be friends with a child living in a council house and Not. Even. Realise.

And I don’t actually see the cliques as being about kids from social housing and kids from multimillion pound homes. I see the cliques as being working class white British kids; working class kids of immigrant families; and kids from made wealth and kids from inherited wealth. It’s so Mitford!

it’s about the activities these girls can do but it’s about more than that. My DD noticed social
class for the first time at CSG. Not poor kids and rich kids but wc/Mc/uc and the English class system. I think she was late to the party as these things were obvious at her primary school ( local to CSG) but she was oblivious.

Yh that's tiny. Tiny enough for that huge difference to be very visible. Fortismere has far less FSM but I know it's a lot more socially diverse than CSG. A lot more space for those kids in the middle.

The PAN is 120, enough to draw some demographic statistically. Yes, Camden is a very socially divisive brough, a lot of FSM non eligible family will be very wealthy and opt of privates.

I don't know. It's a very small PAN and FSM figures really aren't that great at showing deprivation levels imo. FSM eligibility is really difficult and those families are cushioned by the benefits system in comparison to those who just about don't meet the threshold and really struggle. A lot of state schools are full of families like that and on paper they don't look like they have high deprivation levels. Your figure also includes those who have protected FSM so their situation may well be very different then when they qualified. I'm not saying their lives are easy by any stretch, but I think the biggest difference is the girls at Camden who aren't eligible for FSM are usually VERY wealthy. Normally it'll be FSM kids- poor but impossible eligibility mean no FSM kids- better off kids- middle class kids- rich kids. At CSG it feels a bit like FSM kids- poor but impossible eligibility means no FSM kids- rich kids. Not saying the rich kids are mean, but what you do socially out of school as a teen is really dependent on the amount of money you have, so those kids tend to stick together.

"Percentage of children eligible for free school meals"

26.6% so means it is above the average of the UK level. It is probably not a school full of middle class family. Compared to some selective or popular comprehensive in north London FSM is less than 10%.

“And it is more estate girls that above posters suggest, according to my acquaintance (which meant her DD struggled with a circle of friends”

@SameBoat2022 interesting, we meet again 😊
DD1 sat music aptitude test and passed, she’s number 4 on the waiting list by ability (from the original 8) and I don’t think that list will move now, though who knows, maybe in Sep. I have originally actually really liked the school and relative proximity but looking at the Ofsted it seems to say the same as an acquaintance whose DD just finished the school. More able girls in top streams get the worst teachers and least attention as there’s nothing to improve and the school concentrated on improvement which is a KPI. It trusts you’ll be doing the necessary as a parent if any in top stream needs improvement. If your DD is a very able independent learner she’d be fine. If not, homeschooling might be better. And it is more estate girls that above posters suggest, according to my acquaintance (which meant her DD struggled with a circle of friends)

Thanks anyway Foxes.

Sorry, I don't. The only kids I know that went/go to HGW aren't staying for sixth form. 2 I know of are moving to Woodhouse and Camden. But the kids I know are all through music and didn't get into Camden in Y7 so take that with a pinch of salt.

@CSGCSG I agree with you. I think it's a good, normal school and I wouldn't be sad if that's where DD had ended up, but equally I wouldn't be travelling an hour to get her there iyswim. I feel the same about Queens though.
I think the hype is a mixture of things. It used to be a beacon surrounded by failures. The surrounding schools have massively improved in the last 20 years. There is also the aspect of the N London colourstrings music mum who is in a competition and getting that music place is a win. These are the mums that sit in the music school waiting room after allocation day, listening to Tilly and Ella's mums bang on about how much they love the down to earth nature of Highgate Wood and they could never make their girls endure the journey to Camden so they're SO glad they didn't get in. When it's Sophie's mum's turn she will say quietly "oh Sophie's going to Camden, yea I worry about the journey but I didn't want to take it from her after all that". But she's really chuffed. They all tried of course, but only Sophie got in and they fell in love with Highgate Wood when they got the no. I don't want to sound like a bitch as I can understand these mums but that is a reason it's still got such a huge following. The opinions of these mums matter. They carry school marketing on their backs. It is also still riding on its old reputation when it very closely resembled a private. The new funding formulas and general underfunding has scoffed that up and there's only so much they can increase the PAN by. They have a pretty easy demographic. A handful of girls from poorer backgrounds and a large % from middle class families that are all tutoring, if not with a tutor than with the dad journalist or mum who has a maths degree. The demographic is far from your average N London state and that is a huge draw for the middle class parent. A private for free isn't just about resources, but also about social diversity, but that's a can of worms for another thread.

@Foxesandsquirrels while you’re here, you don’t know anything about Highgate Wood sixth form art department do you? I’ve seen some work and was quite impressed but I don’t know what the reputation is.

Yes, I didn’t really realise how much the sixth form isn’t the lower school. Or the lower school isn’t the sixth form. Someone on here said that it’s a large academic sixth form with a small school attached.

I don’t dislike the school. I feel fortunate that DD is there. I like that it doesn’t seem to be as liberal as some of the other local schools but it’s a world away from Mossbourne. I rate the new head. The teachers seem good, some great, but I get the impression they’re happy which is important. I just don’t get the drama about the school. Is it because people like to feel they’ve won something over others?

Yes, tutoring! Poor kids.

They 100% don't. When I said all schools, I meant all. Private and state. It happens even more in privates.

I'm just curious as it's not normally a school that has much movement. The fans tend to be loyal even when unhappy. I suspect COVID and slashed budgets have played a part. Its quite easy for cracks to be hidden in schools like CSG with the cohort they have. My DD has a couple of friends there through Haringey music service and they all have tutors. It's the same in all schools though so the more students you have that can afford that, the less the cracks show. One of DDs friends older sisters did her GCSEs there last year. She got straight 9s and had a tutor for every subject. I agree with you re sixth form. It's a completely different school which I actually don't like. I feel like sixth form should kind of flow from the rest of the school. It feels like a completely different place at Camden.

@Foxesandsquirrels because of the large number of girls leaving? I’m pretty sure it isn’t normal and am assuming it’s to do with Covid in some form or other.

@CSGCSG Out of interest, what year is your DD?

And is unlikely to happen IMO.

My DD is at CSG.

It is a good local school. As far as I can see that is all it is, certainly at Lower School level. The Sixth Form is a different beast.

I estimate that at least 20% of my DD year have left. The first ones to go were the children who had been at private school and whose parents had thought it was a private school for free. It is not and they were disappointed.Others have left to move to other local schools; Parli or AB; or had music places from somewhere remote and decided the commute was too much.

It offers a good all round education and doesn’t seem to tolerate bullying. I agree with the most recent Ofsted inspection and I don’t think they have had a handle on the progress of girls in the pre GCSE years. Communication was appalling but is improving. A lot of your experience will rest on your head of year.

My daughter is happy there. Crucially for her she will be able to take a mix of GCSEs that would not be available at other local state schools. This may change. I was educated in a state secondary school in the 80s. State education can get a lot worse.

ask yourself if you would send your daughter to Parli if you could. If yes, then CSG would suit. If not, I’d suggest staying with Queens.

I really don't mean it like that. Even if you're a billionaire you're perfectly within your right to weigh up the pros and cons and send your child where you feel they'll do best and where your family will do best. An unhappy child has a huge impact on the home. Queens will have their fair share of problems, no school is ideal. I believe socially kids like your DD do better at schools like Camden where they're exposed to more diversity. But, state schools are in a dire state at the moment so no one would blame you if you decided to give it a miss.
I just meant it in the sense, if you're going back and forth and the only negative you're coming to with queen's is the cost, and the cost isn't a burden to you, just send her there. There will be lots of girls waiting to snap up that space in either school. Queens was very popular this year.

It really won't, not in London anyway. A lot of London independents aren't even charities anymore and even for those that are, what Labour is suggesting will take a long time to implement. It's really not that easy to do as it'll effect many areas of education, not just independent schools.
OP if you have the money and it won't make a massive massive difference to your lifestyle, just send her to Queens, give the Camden place to a child that needs it.

It won't help the situation in any time soon.