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Has anyone gone to court over attendance fine?

88 replies

Stclements115 · 10/07/2023 10:51

Just briefly (I can add more info if anyone is interested and can offer advice) - We had to take our son out of school for 5 days due to a self employed work clash which meant we both had to be away from home and had no choice but to take him with us- we informed the school beforehand and they didn’t authorise and therefore we have both received a fine. My husband feels very strongly that he wants to contest the fine due to our unique situation. This situation is very rare for us but as self employed people (in a cost of living crisis) there are rare occurrences like this where we cannot turn down work.
Eager to hear from anyone who has declined to pay fine and gone to court in a similar situation? Thank you!

OP posts:
BillyBraggisnotmylover · 10/07/2023 19:20

butmumineedit · 10/07/2023 18:01

Stclements115

Am guessing his attendance is quite poor as in under 90%. As most local authorities won't fine if it was just a one off - or have you had a holiday this academic year before this leave of absence ?

Not really the case anymore. The DfE expectations post covid are much tighter. Our LA will fine for one day’s unauthorised absence

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 10/07/2023 19:16

Just pay the fine and move on. You are both self employed. Which means you both chose to work away that week at the same time and keep your child off school. You actually have more choice than the average family on this.

Frequency · 10/07/2023 19:11

I considered it. DD lost her Dad very suddenly last summer. She was alone in the house with him at the time and had to do CPR on his dead body while she waited for the paramedics.

She missed a bit of school due to grief and trauma. Her attendance was around 83%. It wasn't all in one go, rather a few days here and there, usually around a "first" occasions eg her first birthday without her dad, his birthday, father's day, the day we sold his house, etc

I was livid that the school fined us under the circumstances. I still am. I think it is utterly heartless and cruel but CAB advised I would be unlikely to win the case and would be better off just paying the fine.

saraclara · 10/07/2023 19:10

This thread had to be a winner for number of posters who've demonstrated am almost complete lack of comprehension skills.

From the OP:

My husband feels very strongly that he wants to contest the fine

Kingsparkle · 10/07/2023 19:03

@ohmustyou - is that in response to me? Because if so you have inferred the completely wrong thing from my question. I meant register with the school and was genuinely interested as it opens up a lot of opportunity for people who want a more hybrid approach to schooling/homeschooling.

ohmustyou · 10/07/2023 18:49

There's no register of ethnicity, it's not Nazi Germany, new age travellers and showmen don't get a badge.

Travel for work is different to a holiday.

noctiscaelum · 10/07/2023 18:44

If OP wanted to be informed to go into the discussion with her husband, this thread would have been great for OP. No one has experience to share, because there aren't many(or at all) successful stories. She should be happy to say to her dh, everyone said just pay.
But instead she gets angry and (passive?)aggressive.

Just pay. You got payed for your work, right? It's just stupid to argue the small fine and get fined even more.

EduCated · 10/07/2023 18:27

Anyfeckinusername · 10/07/2023 16:29

(I'm not "having a go" at you at all when I say this)

I am occasionally in a similar situation although not self employed but I am the sole source of income to our family.

My comment is, I don't have cash problem - I can pay for the childcare, but trying to access childcare that will take over for a few days is nigh on impossible where I live. It took an eternity to find a nanny a few years back and I went through agencies and childcare.co.uk (resulted in nothing). It's not at all as simple as it sounds.

OP I feel your pain. I'm travelling for work in a couple of weeks and I begged for the offsite dates to be adjusted - thankfully work accommodated me and we travel the day after school breaks up - kids are coming with me. I've got family at the offsite location who will help. I've no family in the U.K. (I'm not British) and their British dad is now absent.

I just wanted to say, it's sometimes not the money that's the problem, it's finding someone suitable that's can be a much bigger challenge!

Absolutely. I made the comment a little flippantly, but that’s largely what I meant - overnight childcare isn’t exactly easy to come by, and finding a short term nanny isn’t something you can do at a drop of a hat, so paying long term for a nanny or au pair or similar is a hell of a lot more expensive (especially if you don’t need it 90% of the time).

It is shit, but there are many people where the childcare options largely boil down to a parent staying home (regardless of how unaffordable that is in the long term).

I disagree with the fairly automatic nature of the fines, and the lack of discretion given to head teachers, but realistically under the existing system, a £60 (or even £120) fine is the cheapest solution for OP and her husband, assuming that they still made income from the period of work away.

Kingsparkle · 10/07/2023 18:24

Do people have to prove in any way that their lifestyles are nomadic to register?

butmumineedit · 10/07/2023 18:01

Stclements115

Am guessing his attendance is quite poor as in under 90%. As most local authorities won't fine if it was just a one off - or have you had a holiday this academic year before this leave of absence ?

Whichwhatnow · 10/07/2023 17:52

Foxesandsquirrels · 10/07/2023 17:02

What crap. GRT are protected due to the nature of their culture. There's no such protection for others as the nature of their culture doesn't require them to travel.

The traveller exemption covers 'new travellers' and showmen/circus people. It's not just those who are ethnically Irish travellers or Romany. As above, my siblings' kids and many of my friends are exempt from fines due to this.

Whichwhatnow · 10/07/2023 17:49

Stclements115 · 10/07/2023 16:50

Because I wanted to enter into an informed conversation with my husband whose first reaction to this was that he didn’t want to pay the fine as he felt in our situation it was unfair. I was asking for past experience partly as I knew no one who had similar experience and partly so that I could talk to him and maybe help him to rationalise the situation armed with some gleaned real life experience. Because he wants to go to court and I don’t. This whole thread has turned into a bitch fest, I’m going to turn off notifications now. Thanks @BurscoughBooths@Theosfor responding with useful info, that’s really helpful. @Anyfeckinusername thanks for not joining the witch hunt! @ArnoldBee we are actually in the process of registering :)

Were you already in the process of registering your DS as a traveller child when you took him out? If so you might have a defence - have you raised this point specifically?

I know that many of my friends and family (we are 'new travellers' and many of my friends are either English travellers, 'new travellers' or 'showmen' as defined in the guidance) do not have to pay fines for taking their kids out as and when needed provided they comply with the rules regarding overall attendance but I'm not sure if they have all been fully registered before doing so (I don't have DC myself).

Levi1982 · 10/07/2023 17:36

Thank you for your advice this is the first time posting

PennywisePoundFoolish · 10/07/2023 17:29

AP5Diva · 10/07/2023 17:18

@Levi1982
I agree you will get more if you start your own thread, but my contribution is to scrape together the £400 or so (or even credit card and pay off) to have your son privately assessed for ASD and ADHD. They are umbrella terms for such a wide swathe of ND and without an individual assessment the school will be doing trial and error, often error by not knowing his specific needs and accommodations. A private assessment will include specific accommodations recommended by the Ed. Psych for your DS’ specific subtype(s) of ASD/ADHD

Is this in the UK? The going price for an ASD assessment in my area (Essex) is £2,000, and doesn't include an EP assessment.

sadlittlelifejane · 10/07/2023 17:20

Foxesandsquirrels · 10/07/2023 16:16

It's bizarre.

Not bizarre at all. Quite obvious what info she was after. I don't really understand the attitude and confusion behind some of these comments. Has OP wronged you in the past?

sadlittlelifejane · 10/07/2023 17:19

ThickSkinnedSoWhat · 10/07/2023 16:18

Because OP didn't hear what they wanted to hear 😂 if you can afford to take off for work and take thon child KNOWING you will be fined, you can afford to pay a £60 fine and stop wasting everybody's time.

Why be so rude? They are asking for peoples experience. If everyone said "yep argued it and got out of paying! Easy!" maybe OP would have contemplated. Are you sat at home bored and looking for an argument? There are a load of passive aggressive comments on this thread calling OP passive aggressive. Odd

AP5Diva · 10/07/2023 17:18

@Levi1982
I agree you will get more if you start your own thread, but my contribution is to scrape together the £400 or so (or even credit card and pay off) to have your son privately assessed for ASD and ADHD. They are umbrella terms for such a wide swathe of ND and without an individual assessment the school will be doing trial and error, often error by not knowing his specific needs and accommodations. A private assessment will include specific accommodations recommended by the Ed. Psych for your DS’ specific subtype(s) of ASD/ADHD

PennywisePoundFoolish · 10/07/2023 17:13

@Levi1982 you'll get more replies if you start your own thread, there's a special needs board SN Chat and SN children. They can be quiet but tend yo be used by those with experience of the SEN system etc.

Levi1982 · 10/07/2023 17:05

This reply has been withdrawn

Message withdrawn - poster intended to start a new thread

Foxesandsquirrels · 10/07/2023 17:02

ohmustyou · 10/07/2023 17:00

The code for the register is code T, and it includes show people etc.

Given men can identity as women, and ethnicity has always been self ID I would certainly challenge on that basis. Given you're travelling for work purposes, surely it's illegal to authorise one ethnicity, and fine another.

What crap. GRT are protected due to the nature of their culture. There's no such protection for others as the nature of their culture doesn't require them to travel.

ohmustyou · 10/07/2023 17:00

The code for the register is code T, and it includes show people etc.

Given men can identity as women, and ethnicity has always been self ID I would certainly challenge on that basis. Given you're travelling for work purposes, surely it's illegal to authorise one ethnicity, and fine another.

Foxesandsquirrels · 10/07/2023 16:58

Are you actually GRT though OP? If you are, than you can possibly appeal the fine on that basis.

DNAnucleotide · 10/07/2023 16:58

Flouncers corner!

Belltentdreamer · 10/07/2023 16:56

Move to Oxfordshire they don’t fine

ohmustyou · 10/07/2023 16:55

Traveller families are allowed to be absent from school for occupational purposes. So if traveller parents need to go away for work, their kids have authorised absence (code T on the register.)

Would it not be discrimination on ethnicity if non-travellers are not allowed to take their kids out of school for occupational purposes?

I would tell the school I identify as a traveller.

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