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Amazing state secondary schools... Anywhere in the UK!

114 replies

RaRaRamen · 02/07/2023 21:24

Hi all,

Our kids are still in very early primary school but we're thinking ahead to our next house move in a couple years time and would like to move somewhere close to good secondaries. Our local options are pretty dire. We'd be looking for jobs around good school areas so we're pretty flexible and can go anywhere in the country. Which is exciting but so open! Our budget for housing is around the 400k-mark so nowhere super expensive 😬 We can't afford private school.

I haven't seen a recent post like this so hopefully this will be useful for other people with a similar conundrum.

So please tell me, does anyone really rate their kids secondary school? Or know of counties with a high proportion of good schools? Most important thing to us is a nurturing environment rather than academics. I know schools can go downhill but a good starting point would be ideal!

Also please, no posts about how terrible all state schools are. I'm not interested and there are plenty of other threads to choose from for those. Thank you!

OP posts:
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NotSoFastMyDear · 03/07/2023 12:56

@Relaxinghammock

But with the exception of minority, how do you know if your child will want to take triple science? I have now a pretty STEM-orientated 10-year-old. But I have no idea if he will be into that in year 9 when the times of choice come. Maybe he will develop a liking for music more, or languages. God only knows.
Here where I live in my borough all academies have the same core GCSE subjects+ 3 optional

I am concerned about making solid choices at this age. 11 years old child is supposed to make a decision if he will learn Spanish or French at school. We do not have family in Spain or France. I cannot make this choice for him based on the fact that I like French cheese or I like holidays in Spain:)

But right probably it is good to attend a school with a broad range of choices. But what I observed is that most of the parents make choices based on a percentage of 5+ in Maths and English rather than broad GCSE choices.

clary · 03/07/2023 12:18

Hi OP have you considered the East Midlands? There are a couple of very highly rated schools in and near Derby (Littleover CS and Ecclesbourne); doubt you’d be able to find four beds in Duffield (Ecc village) but probably if you looked in the bit of north Derby city that is in catchment; for LCS you should be fine but make sure you check the catchments (other schools in area not so great).Or there are great schools in West Bridgford in Nottingham, tho I’ll be honest and say I don’t know if the £400k houses in WB are in catchment for WB School – worth checking tho. What else is important to you? City vs rural? Commute to London? Closeness to family? Handy for the coast? There are great schools all over the country, honestly.

Bovrilla · 03/07/2023 11:30

Solihull has 2 schools on that list but you will struggle getting a big enough house for £400k.

I'd look at South Ribble, specifically between the Penwortham girls and Hutton boys schools. Hutton is a Grammar by name but not nature (it's a very very old school) but both have a long history of being good.

Additionally you have All Hallows (outstanding catholic school) in the area too

Relaxinghammock · 03/07/2023 11:24

Here is the same Curriculum for every school. They pick up they preferences in Y9.

That’s not really true though, is it? Not all school are equal and not all schools have to follow the NC.

For example, academies don’t have to follow the NC. Some schools don’t offer additional or further maths. A minority don’t offer GCSE triple science. Some offer more/different languages, in other schools pupils can only take 1 language. Some offer additional languages after school, others don’t. As RS has to be studied in some form even in schools who don’t have to follow the NC some make GCSE RS (short or long course) compulsory, others don’t and deliver RS in other ways. Some have a more limited range of options for GCSE/GCSE equivalent qualifications than other schools. Some pick their options in Y8, some make ‘mini’ options in Y8, others don’t pick any until Y9.

And that’s before you consider anything else other than the curriculum.

RaRaRamen · 03/07/2023 11:15

RaRaRamen · 03/07/2023 11:14

Thanks! We'll put Cambridge on the list of places to investigate too!

Sorry that was meant for @Tingalingle When will Mumsnet invent an edit button?!

OP posts:
RaRaRamen · 03/07/2023 11:14

TizerorFizz · 03/07/2023 10:48

@RaRaRamen No grammar school in Bucks has ever been less than good. Most are outstanding and will remain so. Waddesdon has always been exceptional. Sheffield, which I know quite well has RI schools. One is a strict school. Some don’t have 6th forms. They are comprehensive but very variable according to area. Few are as good as Waddesdon and that’s a secondary in a grammar county. I think there are schools you can trust to stay pretty decent in all the areas you want. If you are purely judging behaviour and bullying, that’s far more of an issue in some schools. Also difficult to judge over time. High performing schools time and time again with great slt are the gold standard. In your price bracket, you don’t really have a huge choice in some areas of the SE, should you want to be there.

Thanks! We'll put Cambridge on the list of places to investigate too!

OP posts:
RaRaRamen · 03/07/2023 11:13

NotSoFastMyDear · 03/07/2023 10:46

Decent school- yes, absolutely, but "Parents who are invested in their kids' education"<= I think this is not the most important criterion you should use. But that is my opinion...For me, a good school, great pastoral care, and good teachers are more important than if "other parents care for the education of their children". I don't live their lives, my child doesn't live their lives....
There is a lot of mental health issues among kids in many grammar schools as a result of pressing parents. Single-sex education makes children socially awkward. But this is all swept under the carpet. The parents start with the push to get them in and then they push to be the top. What memory of childhood they will have?
So what if the school is super selective if the school is not that good and is merely driven by the fame of the GCSE percentage that comes of the fact that they have the best kids in the county? That is not enough. I am referring here to downgraded by OFSTED grammar schools with reports that teachers' provision is merely satisfactory but there are still 11-12 candidates per place because their parents don't understand how to do proper research what the school really is like. And the existing parents just worship the holy grail school. I know quite a few "Stepford wives' schools" where everybody repeats like a mantra " Aaaamazing school". Not really in fact. I know even one school which is below the national average in GCSE results, has a lot of absences, and instances of bullying and parents are programmed to say "aaaamazing school".

Beware of successful marketing as it distorts perception of reality. :)

That's really good to remember, thank you! I think there's no substitute for visiting the school and gauging the feeling for yourself, as I agree there can be an echo chamber with parents and schools, both good and bad.

I guess I wasn't totally clear though, when I said invested in their education I didn't just mean academically. I meant invested in the school as well, taking pride in the school etc. I live in an area where this isn't the case. The schools aren't valued. The community feel, and the feeling of a supportive environment, just isn't there. I'm not a particularly pushy parent academically but I am invested in making sure they're in a happy environment. I definitely don't want to be with a crowd of demanding and pushy parents though 😬 As you say, pastoral care comes first.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 03/07/2023 10:48

@RaRaRamen No grammar school in Bucks has ever been less than good. Most are outstanding and will remain so. Waddesdon has always been exceptional. Sheffield, which I know quite well has RI schools. One is a strict school. Some don’t have 6th forms. They are comprehensive but very variable according to area. Few are as good as Waddesdon and that’s a secondary in a grammar county. I think there are schools you can trust to stay pretty decent in all the areas you want. If you are purely judging behaviour and bullying, that’s far more of an issue in some schools. Also difficult to judge over time. High performing schools time and time again with great slt are the gold standard. In your price bracket, you don’t really have a huge choice in some areas of the SE, should you want to be there.

NotSoFastMyDear · 03/07/2023 10:46

RaRaRamen · 03/07/2023 09:49

Oh definitely. But as I say, I'd rather start at a good baseline and move somewhere that has a range of decent schools and parents who are invested in their kids education. Our area isn't known for that, and those kinds of things are often entrenched and difficult to change, even over a few years.

Decent school- yes, absolutely, but "Parents who are invested in their kids' education"<= I think this is not the most important criterion you should use. But that is my opinion...For me, a good school, great pastoral care, and good teachers are more important than if "other parents care for the education of their children". I don't live their lives, my child doesn't live their lives....
There is a lot of mental health issues among kids in many grammar schools as a result of pressing parents. Single-sex education makes children socially awkward. But this is all swept under the carpet. The parents start with the push to get them in and then they push to be the top. What memory of childhood they will have?
So what if the school is super selective if the school is not that good and is merely driven by the fame of the GCSE percentage that comes of the fact that they have the best kids in the county? That is not enough. I am referring here to downgraded by OFSTED grammar schools with reports that teachers' provision is merely satisfactory but there are still 11-12 candidates per place because their parents don't understand how to do proper research what the school really is like. And the existing parents just worship the holy grail school. I know quite a few "Stepford wives' schools" where everybody repeats like a mantra " Aaaamazing school". Not really in fact. I know even one school which is below the national average in GCSE results, has a lot of absences, and instances of bullying and parents are programmed to say "aaaamazing school".

Beware of successful marketing as it distorts perception of reality. :)

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/07/2023 10:22

But the OP could afford a house in these areas. Not a detached, but they could get a house.

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 03/07/2023 10:12

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/07/2023 09:33

Sheffield is lovely. Half of it is in the Peak District. The area around the Porter Valley is just fantastic for kids and parents alike.

l agree with S10 and S11. Also S17. Quite expensive areas but very good schools. Sheffield has the highest number of graduates outside London. These expensive areas elected a Labour MP and she’s fantastic.

These postcodes are lovely and border the Peak District, and come at a cost. Other parts of Sheffield are not very lovely, very urban and a bit run down. Like any city, it has extremes, but within close proximity.

CormoranStrikeIsBloodyLovely · 03/07/2023 10:09

Have you considered Yarm/Eaglescliffe area?
Both towns have excellent state schools and are lovely towns to live in.

Namechangeforthis88 · 03/07/2023 10:03

@GulesMeansRed got there before me, I wouldn't put great faith in a UK league table put together by people who don't know that Scotland is part of the UK and has a separate education system. That said, high performing schools in Scotland are very closely linked to property prices as catchment area is consistent year to year, so prices drop off dramatically from one side of the road to the other.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/07/2023 10:00

And the weirdest thing about living here is massive mansions with ‘Vote Labour’ signs

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/07/2023 09:59

Peony654 · 03/07/2023 09:46

schools change over time, it's risky to move based on current situation at schools.

The ones round me have never changed in Sheffield. They continue to be good/outstanding.

FlipFlop1987 · 03/07/2023 09:55

As important as school is, don’t put too much stress on it, I’m sure there’s other things you may want to factor in such as good job prospects and amenties. Do you want city or rural? Do you drive and commute or WFH?
I’ve lived both city (York) and semi-rural (North East) and there’s benefits to both. There’s ample good secondary schools around us. York is very dense, busy, lots of traffic but does have very good schools, amenities and transport links. It’s pretty expensive for housing though, you would need to look at new build to get a 3 bed for £400k. It wouldn’t be central either. The villages around York are stunning though. We relocated an hour north-east, what you get for your money compared to cities is ridiculous and it suits us better as we love the outdoors and wildlife. This is what you can expect for £400k

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/131290310

Check out this 4 bedroom detached house for sale on Rightmove

4 bedroom detached house for sale in Wynyard, Billingham, TS22 for £389,995. Marketed by Bellway Homes (Durham)

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/131290310

RaRaRamen · 03/07/2023 09:49

Peony654 · 03/07/2023 09:46

schools change over time, it's risky to move based on current situation at schools.

Oh definitely. But as I say, I'd rather start at a good baseline and move somewhere that has a range of decent schools and parents who are invested in their kids education. Our area isn't known for that, and those kinds of things are often entrenched and difficult to change, even over a few years.

OP posts:
RaRaRamen · 03/07/2023 09:47

NotSoFastMyDear · 03/07/2023 09:21

All state schools prepare to GCSE and follow National Curriculum. Unless a child has a Special Educational Needs it should not make a big diffrence. Every school offer PE and I have not seen a school that have no sport clubs after school- sporty kids will find themselves in every school. There is Math, Sciences in every school for those interested. There is English and languages.
In UK is not like in some other countries on the continent where the state school have specialism or specialist class e.g. additional language lessons, or maths lessons etc. Here is the same Curriculum for every school. They pick up they preferences in Y9.

When the decision is taken, at the age of 10 hardly any child knows ina serious way what they will specialise in in a future. I wanted to be a nun at that age, and a year later I decided to be a gardener. At the age of 12 I decided to be an astronaut woman. 🤦🏼‍♀️

For me, the feeling of the school is more important than the curriculum, as I know state schools all follow the same one. Like how they deal with bullying, whether the kids and staff are happy, is there a high staff turnover (which I understand to be an issue in most schools these days), what's their phone policy in the younger years etc. I've found that asking for personal recommendations is the most useful for this info! The things I'd be most interested in is the behaviour of the kids I guess.

OP posts:
Peony654 · 03/07/2023 09:46

schools change over time, it's risky to move based on current situation at schools.

RaRaRamen · 03/07/2023 09:43

Thanks so much for everyone's input so far! We hadn't properly considered York or Sheffield so we will investigate. We had family that lived up near York and we loved visiting but hadn't considered moving up there. Their kids secondary school wasn't brilliant but there are others to choose from. Lots to think about!

OP posts:
Elvisrockstar · 03/07/2023 09:39

Sheffield is a great place to live - very green and very friendly.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/07/2023 09:33

Sheffield is lovely. Half of it is in the Peak District. The area around the Porter Valley is just fantastic for kids and parents alike.

l agree with S10 and S11. Also S17. Quite expensive areas but very good schools. Sheffield has the highest number of graduates outside London. These expensive areas elected a Labour MP and she’s fantastic.

GulesMeansRed · 03/07/2023 09:27

Maireas · 02/07/2023 21:42

Well that blog is wrong because it’s not the best state schools in the UK, it’s the top performing in England and wales which is not the same thing at all.

would recommend East Renfrewshire or East Dunbartonshire for excellent state provision around Glasgow.

NotSoFastMyDear · 03/07/2023 09:21

SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress · 02/07/2023 22:12

The tricky thing is that what you are after is the best school for your child.

All state schools prepare to GCSE and follow National Curriculum. Unless a child has a Special Educational Needs it should not make a big diffrence. Every school offer PE and I have not seen a school that have no sport clubs after school- sporty kids will find themselves in every school. There is Math, Sciences in every school for those interested. There is English and languages.
In UK is not like in some other countries on the continent where the state school have specialism or specialist class e.g. additional language lessons, or maths lessons etc. Here is the same Curriculum for every school. They pick up they preferences in Y9.

When the decision is taken, at the age of 10 hardly any child knows ina serious way what they will specialise in in a future. I wanted to be a nun at that age, and a year later I decided to be a gardener. At the age of 12 I decided to be an astronaut woman. 🤦🏼‍♀️

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