Strict no phones rule at secondary school

What a horrid way of enforcing a no phones in school policy.

My DSs' school issued all students with Yondr phone pouches. The phones have to go in the pouch at the start of the day and they are locked, and then at the end of the day as they leave school they place the pouch lock on the magnet which unlocks the pouch. That way students have their phones with them for trips into and from school.

Only once since April did one of my DC forget and have to go back to school to unlock the pouch.

But the no phones policy was set by State Government legislation so schools have no choice.

In schools with uniforms, girls are conditioned to accept the opinion of others about their clothing, which is very often an exercise in slut-shaming. The policing of girls' self-expression is normalized.

My DCs went to high school in the US and initially when phones becamena thing, the school banned phones; parents had to go to the school at 3pm to get a phone if it was confiscated.

Eventually phones were allowed because parents were upset that kids couldn't get in touch and they couldn't get in touch with the kids - parents working away from home couldn't get to the school to pick up confiscated phones and were calling to see if the kids had got home and could they please take X or Y out of the freezer to defrost for dinner, or whether they had got to their PT job or to babysit, or to find out what time sport/ band/ theatre rehearsals were over, and getting a busy tone. There were students who had to take care of younger siblings after school and couldn't call a parent if something went wrong because the phone was in the school office.

In short, it was a total pain in the arse for everyone, and the school got fed up of enforcing a rule that did absolutely nothing to safeguard students, while actually making family life and students' lives more difficult and complicated than they should have been. Regardless of the rule, the majority had a phone anyway. So phones were allowed, and students now place them in a phone box on the teacher's desk when they enter a classroom. Teachers allow students to take photos of homework assignment instructions, of the questions in maths, etc instead of lugging a 400 page hardcover textbook home.

Quite frankly, if parents see fit to give students a piece of technology that has been around for decades, then what are schools saying about parental judgement when they confiscate phones? And who do they think they are kidding if they believe confiscating phones is somehow protecting kids? Kids spend the majority of each day outside of school.

Sorry but that just hasn't been my experience. In my experience teachers and schools only care about naice middle class students, and dismiss kids from chaotic or troubled backgrounds as being beyond help. Or they have some myth in their head of grateful well-behaved helpless ickle orphans, when the reality is that children who have been severely abused and/or experienced homelessness are going to be deeply traumatised, defensive, hostile, and suspicious of adults trying to "help" them.

But children who have a natural normal psychological response to trauma just get written off as difficult and non-compliant.

Not a single teacher at my school had any idea when I was sleeping rough, when it was extremely obvious and all the other kids knew. They just punished me instead.

Unless a child discloses or SS informs the school, there really just isn't any way for a school to know. I work with young people and many, many of them experienced abuse, homelessness, poverty, being a carer, parental alcoholism, etc. and the one common theme is that the schools didn't know or care and that they were punished for being victims.

I constantly read stuff both here and elsewhere about kids being punished for not having clean uniform, not having proper uniform, not having the right equipment. Any school that has a blanket policy that kids should be punished for not having access to a washing machine is obviously not one where kids are going to feel safe disclosing abuse.

I've mentioned this before on MN and certain posters who are teachers and quite well-known for defending teachers were insistent that even if a child has perfect behaviour and excellent grades, they should be punished for not having proper uniform because it's a sign of disobedience and will lead to bad behaviour. Without any understanding that children don't have all that much control over what they wear.

We have clues. We try our best to help students who are homeless and otherwise on the margins.

I would hope so. Obviously my schooldays were a while ago (mid-noughties) and I hope things have changed since then, but my school had absolutely no idea the students who were pregnant (until it became obvious), who were rough sleepers, who were sofa surfing, who had abusive families. You can't give special consideration if you don't know.

A lot of young people with rough home lives feel pressure to hide, or are pressured/threatened by their families to keep it secret, keep it secret out of shame or fear of judgement and bullying, or just don't feel that they have the kind of relationship with their teachers where they feel comfortable disclosing.

If a child doesn't disclose and there's no significant SS involvement, there's just no way for the school to know.

Obviously having a baby is different since that would be on record and possibly have SS involvement, but most kids who have abusive/alcoholic parents keep it a secret (lots of kids who are carers, ditto) and the school has no clue.

Also, at our school, sixth form can use them in the common room and in lessons at the discretion of the teacher @marewindham

@marewindham the Pastoral team would monitor individual cases and special consideration given. We do want the best for students and are aware that circumstances vary.

@MariaVT65 "Are they expected to carry these things with them all day?"

At my son's school, yes they were. There was space in the PE block and the music block to leave sports equipment and instruments, but everything else they carried round like tortoises. It was such a huge site that if they had had lockers they could easily have been a quarter of a mile away from them at the end of the day...

Not to derail, but I was living independently in my own flat, working part-time and having to pay rent and bills and everything myself by the final year of my GCSEs. I could not have survived without a mobile and there were times when I had to step out of class to make urgent calls (for example arranging emergency plumber, phoning the benefits office which could only be done during certain hours, phoning for GP appointments, fielding work-related urgent calls).

There are so many kids who are living without parental support, homeless, in care (which often doesn't involve much care at all), who are carers themselves, or who are essentially running their households due to parents being substance abusers or for other reasons, as well as secondary school pupils who have children themselves. These pupils have very different reasons for needing mobile phones than the ones stated here.

If I had a baby in daycare I would be furious at a teacher confiscating my phone because what if something happened to my baby and the daycare had no way to get in touch with me? I was regularly punished at school for not having parents, I hope things have changed since then, but a rule that phones can only be collected by a parent punishes kids who are homeless or have alcoholic/abusive parents.

I don't know if the rules secondary schools have over phones also cover sixth form, but it seems like common sense that a rule that's sensible for an 11/12 yr old isn't going to be appropriate for a 16/17/18yr old.

DD's school similar to the above.

Staggered entry times, multiple gates, straight to first class rather than assemblies or form rooms.

They don't seem to have textbooks at all, and PE kit is worn all day at school on days with PE or after-school sports clubs.

Yep - my 14 year old DD has a 90 minute journey to school. She has multiple after-school classes a week - one of which requires 3 buses to get to.

Sometimes the classes run over and I can see if she's on her way home or not without disrupting the lesson or the teacher.

I can also help more easily when she gets in a panic about whether she got off the bus too early or late. No point in her describing things as not an area of London I know. On the tracker I can see her on a map and direct her.

It's also useful if trains are delayed and she's stuck in one of the 3 dead zones on the line where there is no signal.

I hadn't read @Boudicasbeard post but agree with this

People are terrified of rare events like accidents or kidnap but seem to completely ignore the things that are much more likely to happen- online bullying, sexting, nudes, revenge porn, grooming and coordinated attacks. All using phones

So that's why schools don't like students to have them in school.

Agree with @saraclara

I genuinely feel sorry for today's teenagers, being tracked every minute by their parents.

I would also say that children are more at risk from phone use than having something happen to them on the way home.

Phones open up the possibility for them to view porn, have weirdos message them, have other kids target them for bullying, see stupid dares on TikTok - the list goes on.

I don't agree with a tracker. I hate the fact that everything we do is filmed or tracked. What we have bought, where we have been etc...

I totally agree with PP

example - two teens caught in the act - the person who videoed the scene sent it to 100 teens on their contact list within minuets -

DD told me about it and ask that I not contact the girls parents - I asked her why? I didn’t know the girls parents and I assured her that someone else would speak to them anyway. She was worried the girl would get into trouble with the teachers as she was underage -

I told her that whatever trouble she’d get into at school would be far less than the punishment her own friends were spreading online for all to see and judge - that video is still out there - any ‘detention’ would’ve been over a done with.

Im not saying teachers would’ve punished the teens involved - I know they wouldn’t - however I was speaking to a teen brain and how they operate. This was a light bulb moment for her -

And now they appear to be videoing ‘gang’ punishments for what reason? Attention?

It’s about time the laws caught up with these things and I’m glad schools are banning phones. For the good of everyone - perhaps parents should do the same.

@SweetNaffAll

I do get where you are coming from. I’ve done the training and sat through the police talks as a member of staff.

What the police are telling us is that it is all happening by phone. Which is why more and more schools are insisting on and absolutely no phones policy. Because we know what those kids - even the ones whose parents would swear up and down that they’ve given them the right guidance- will do when they have phones +peer pressure. It is too strong a pull for almost any child.

We have two children being prosecuted at the moment for distributing nudes. They are nice kids- their parents are mortified. Each family was entirely rocked when presented with the evidence of what their child had done- because they had such a good relationship with their kid.

The people who build these devices pay millions to behavioural psychologists to make them as addictive as possible. The same goes for social media companies. They just want your attention for as many hours a day as possible and be damned the consequences.

What we are talking about is a total rewriting of social habits, norms, moral attitudes to suit the bottom line of tech companies.

I would politely suggest that parents don’t know as much as they think about their child’s phone usage and most would be horrified if they did.

Same rule at our school. If a child wants to contact a parent they have to ask a teacher to contact the receptionist. There has to be a good reason why. If the parent wants to contact the child, they ring the receptionist.

My DD says her friends used to hide in the toilets and play on them during breaks. But they are OFF at all times (allegedly) or there's a detention.

I've never put a tracker on my child.

I'm not wound up by you, but I live in this area and can tell you that every movement and campaign to stop knife crime has failed miserably and if anything it has gotten worse. Yes, they say its a safe haven, but in fact it has done nothing and stabbings and muggings have continued. Parents of children growing up in this area will know too well that despite efforts it is very much still going on, hence the need to allow mobile phones for our children's safety.

Every week we are reading and hearing of horror stories in our area, and as mentioned earlier, a 15 year old boy loosing his life only a few days ago.

For some people it is hard to grasp unless they are in the thick of it.

Look I get what you're saying, but where I live, the biggest threat right now is muggings - for phones, and particularly targeting school children. We live in an overpopulated city in which police cannot keep up with the sheer volume of crimes committed daily. If you report theft you can bet your bottom dollar that it will not be investigated. You will be given a crime number, but you'll never see your phone again.

There are not enough resources and therefore these muggings will continue. I'm not prepared to make my children guinea-pigs by stopping them taking a phone in in hope that muggers will eventually realise that it's not worth the crime as children are no longer allowed phones at school... plus, realistically many children will take phones in anyway.

I've worked hard at fostering good relationships with my children, and teaching them the dangers of online bullying etc. I can only hope that it's enough, and so far it has been. They need to learn to navigate technology with guidance. Realistically, we can't go back to how it was pre smart phones so it's a pointless argument. Children will find a way, as will criminals.

Sadly it's a case of survival and street smarts. Again, we don't all have the luxury of living in well to do area.

@SweetNaffAll I'm backing out for the time being-I'm obviously just winding you up.But just thought you might be interested in this. Probably the wrong school or the wrong place or the wrong McDonalds- but I'm relieved I wasn't making it up! www.times-series.co.uk/news/23557828.mcdonalds-branch-safe-haven-knife-crime/

But the knife crime is organised by phone. These kids have phones that they are using to get involved in crime. How would they manage to target and swoop in on victims without them? It would be much harder.

Most of the incidents begin online- someone posts something that they don’t like or someone sends private messages that start a fight. And these fights are impossible to track because they happen in closed groups with no adults present.

When stuff brewed IRL we could often see it coming in school and diffuse it. Or parents could over hear something and step in. But now everything is in encoded WhatsApps or Discords or SnapChats and it is a fucking nightmare.

Children are essentially bringing each other up and making their own culture online without any parental input and we are then all amazed at the sudden IRL consequences of that.

Anyone who is counting on their kid’s phone to keep them safe is kidding themselves- you’ve essentially handed them unrestricted access to some of the worst parts of humanity and then told them that it is for their own benefit.

Does the slight benefit of knowing where they are at all times outweighs all those other evils? Only the existence of smart phones makes stuff like County Lines and CSA so easy for criminals because it makes everything they do to children invisible to parents.

🤣🤣🤣🤣 that's hilarious! McDonald's is nowhere near my children's school, plus McDonald's has been central to where a lot of the stabbings have happened and where a lot of youths congregate after school.

Google Islington and you will see yourself.

We live it and breathe it. Our school has advised us to meet our children after school and if we can't, to arrange a system in which parents can rotate school pick ups to escort children to their homes.

Please don't talk about a situation you have no idea about.

My daughters friend was stabbed 4 weeks ago because she didn't have a phone to hand over. She was fortunate enough to have avoided a potentially fatal stab wound. Luckily two superficial wounds. This is one example of many in this area

Again, where do you live? Because as much as I agree with what you say, realistically it will be useless in protecting children where I live.

Strategies like what? Run into non existent shops? 😂

@SweetNaffAll we have the knife crime team in once a week at the moment (am south east coast) so I get it.

@SweetNaffAll I'd like to see that proof. Incidentally- isn't Islington the borough where McDonalds has declared itself a safe space for children feeling threatened? Awful that it's necessary, but great that they've done it.