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Original poster

11+ is going to ruin me

442 replies

AlwaysReadyNeverSteady · 24/06/2023 12:40

Hi, sorry if this is garbled, I've had a very emotionally fraught morning.

DS is due to sit 11+ this September. He has had a 1:1 tutor for around 18 months. She comes very well recommended and is known for being upfront with parents if she thinks their child might not be quite right for the process/test. She assures me he is able enough.

He's been doing well across all areas, although slightly less so on the maths. He has a LOT of homework which I try to spread out across the week, so we're only doing a couple of (set pages) of books a night and the corrections for practise tests he'd done to previous week with tutor.

Its not always been easy to get him to focus after school, which I do understand as he works hard at school too, but we get through it. Lately he has been so emotional about it and I've apparently just got to the bottom of why... Sat with him this morning, going through corrections of test he'd sat last week. Just burst into tears, beside himself, wouldn't tell me why... Gave him some space and afterwards he told me it's because he doesn't like the way I explain things to him and that I'm "too positive."

For context, I've been a primary school teacher for 14 years. I know how to teach children and what works for different children. My kids at school always achieve well, above national expectations and I've never had any complaints about my teaching style. I never get frustrated with him, am supportive and encouraging and always try to approach the work with a positive attitude, explaining misconceptions patiently.
I'm a single parent and work full time teaching, so to be completely honest it's a massive slog for me to keep motivated and positive for him doing all this by myself. His father is utterly useless and does NONE of the work with him.

I just don't know what to do. This whole process is killing me, I am utterly exhausted. Hearing what he said has just knocked me for six. All this money and time I've invested and endless motivation when I've been on my knees after hard days at work. And I've upset him.

I'm sad and confused and I don't know what to do. I have asked him multiple times if it's because he doesn't want to carry on and he always says he doesn't want to give up.

What do I do?

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ThanksItHasPockets · 07/03/2025 18:13

CurlewKate · 07/03/2025 18:11

To be clear-he will have had 1:1 tutoring for 2 years by the time he takes the test?

Is it for one of the super selective grammars?

Given that he took the 11+ in September 2023 I don't think that will have been the case, no.

CurlewKate · 07/03/2025 18:11

To be clear-he will have had 1:1 tutoring for 2 years by the time he takes the test?

Is it for one of the super selective grammars?

Yolo12345 · 07/03/2025 18:03

Really feel sorry for your kid here. So what if he has just had a break...he works hard all week at school and then his mum tutors him when he gets home! It sounds miserable.

PizzaLifeDaisies · 28/02/2025 16:57

How did things turn out for your DS @AlwaysReadyNeverSteady ? I’ve just read the whole thread (we’re in a similar situation preparing my DD for 11+ this September) and didn’t realise until too late that this was two years ago! I really hope things turned out well, whether he passed or not.

Roomonthedustpan · 31/10/2023 10:08

@ThanksItHasPockets and this is where the grammar system fails most. Much of it “snobbery.” A foundation 5 or 4 is a GCSE 5 or 4. A higher U is a GCSE U🤷‍♀️. There has to be accountability in the teaching too. The results can have been a complete surprise. One of two maybe.

The higher than I imagined number who didn’t get the magic 48 to get into 6th form also shocked me. This had only ever been wafted as a passive aggressive “don’t let this be you.” Not once from the year 6 meetings through year 11 was an average percentage given. Tbh, initially I was sucked into the understanding that all will leave with 8s and 9s. I wondered how so many could be so strong across the curriculum. I was right to wonder.

ThanksItHasPockets · 31/10/2023 06:29

Roomonthedustpan · 31/10/2023 00:44

@ThanksItHasPockets i stand corrected. My son said there was nothing below a 4 when I questioned how boys got Us, assuming a U must literally be a blank paper. It was approx 20 out of 200z

Your son is correct with regards to the higher paper. The boys you mention should have been entered for the foundation tier and it is an appalling failure on the part of the school that they were allowed to drop off the bottom of the scale and achieve Us. I’m genuinely shocked. That would never happen in any comprehensive where I have worked.

Roomonthedustpan · 31/10/2023 00:46

@Panicmode1 @explainthistomeplease the AQA grade boundaries for 2023 https://filestore.aqa.org.uk/over/stat_pdf/AQA-GCSE-GDE-BDY-JUN-2023.PDF

https://filestore.aqa.org.uk/over/stat_pdf/AQA-GCSE-GDE-BDY-JUN-2023.PDF

Roomonthedustpan · 31/10/2023 00:44

@ThanksItHasPockets i stand corrected. My son said there was nothing below a 4 when I questioned how boys got Us, assuming a U must literally be a blank paper. It was approx 20 out of 200z

Roomonthedustpan · 31/10/2023 00:38

Your son will have received the grade boundaries with or just after his results. They showed that in 3 x subjects he was one point off the next grade. We didn’t pay to get his remarked, he had what he needed for 6th form and has no intention of going to Oxbridge to study medicine or similar that might look at GCSEs. For him they were a gateway to A levels. Some parents paid 3 x £45 per subject to get remarked papers. Why? A 6, 7 or 8 is great. It all circles back, in my opinion, to the 11+ and social standing.

Two mums who give no hoots about my son’s or my wellbeing asked “how he got on.” I gave my usual, “could not have done better” with a grin. They take from this what they like. I know one of them was “amazed” and apparently pretty cross that he got straight 9s and her son didn’t. He didn’t and I didn’t say that he did! It’s all utter madness.

Roomonthedustpan · 31/10/2023 00:30

the grades are based on a bell curve. If a 9 this year was 80 or 90%, this suggests the standard was high this year. The marking is supposedly moderated to ensure it’s fair. The pass percentage drops if candidates were scoring low.

Roomonthedustpan · 31/10/2023 00:27

@explainthistomeplease i absolutely agree with you. The school struggles to retain language teachers. My son’s German teacher left at the end of the summer term, which answered a lot of questions, eg the ratio of cover lessons to taught lessons in his GCSE year.

He achieved a 4 in German, which is a minor miracle. For a selective grammar school you would expect higher. His vocabulary is poor. Yes, much of this is down to him, but the lack of apparent enthusiasm from the teacher can’t have helped.

The boys are mandated to take a minimum 10 GCSEs, but only 8 count towards 6th form snd most uni applications. Many therefor decide which two they’re not going to bother with. When you hear the boys grades, it’s very clear which ones. Languages and a science are top of the drop list. 3 sciences is also the rule. It’s a shame for those more inclined to humanities and limits their future options.

If I could turn back the click, I’d have swerved the grammar school system completely. It’s not fit for purpose and, I don’t believe, sets children up well for the workplace of the future. I work in HR consulting and I don’t believe my son has the skills needed. The curriculum is out of date.

clary · 30/10/2023 20:19

@Panicmode1 well Edexcel is the only other commonly sat MFL GCSE, and a 9 in that this year was 230/280 so that’s a bit over 80%.

No one says a 9 is easy to gain, esp not in MFL. I know lots of non-native speakers who gained 7-8-9 in MFL GCSE in recent years (not talking TAGS).

Panicmode1 · 30/10/2023 19:28

clary · 30/10/2023 19:11

To get a grade 9 in AQA (the most popular) GCSE French this year you needed to score just under 80% (188/240), not 90%.

Is your child’s teacher talking about IGCSE I wonder as they reference A-star?

Show quote history

No, I meant a 9..and not iGCSEs. I don't know what board they do but that's what he said in a parents evening..that to get the top grades now, it is very very much harder than it used to be!

clary · 30/10/2023 19:11

Panicmode1 · 30/10/2023 10:21

@explainthistomeplease language times have indeed changed. To get an A* in French GCSE this year, you had to get 90% (according to my son's teacher). At my son's superselective grammar, getting an 8 or a 9 in a language now is much more difficult than it used to be (even 2 or 3 years ago when my elder 2 were given TAGs).

To get a grade 9 in AQA (the most popular) GCSE French this year you needed to score just under 80% (188/240), not 90%.

Is your child’s teacher talking about IGCSE I wonder as they reference A-star?

lolo99 · 30/10/2023 19:07

faffadoodledo · 29/10/2023 14:08

@emmagow13 I think you'll find that the vast, vast majority of kids are heavily tutored. Maybe your grandchild was too, but you weren't told about it. Many parents don't admit to it!

This is very true. Tutored to the hilt.

Panicmode1 · 30/10/2023 10:21

@explainthistomeplease language times have indeed changed. To get an A* in French GCSE this year, you had to get 90% (according to my son's teacher). At my son's superselective grammar, getting an 8 or a 9 in a language now is much more difficult than it used to be (even 2 or 3 years ago when my elder 2 were given TAGs).

explainthistomeplease · 30/10/2023 09:20
  1. grammars/parents lead you to believe the children only get 8s & 9s and 6s, which are Bs are poor. Not one child who didn’t have a Spanish speaking parent got more than a 6. The number of Us was, I thought, unbelievable.
Times must have changed. Ten and 12 years ago my children managed A stars (in old money) easily in French despite not having french speaking parents. That anecdote @Roomonthedustpan is shocking. I mean why bother taking a language in that case? No wonder so few do.
ThanksItHasPockets · 30/10/2023 09:18

Roomonthedustpan · 30/10/2023 09:15

@emmagow13 do you actually have a child in grammar?

  1. there are no grade 2 and 3. 4 is lowest then a U

  2. 6th form entry is on actual grades, not mocks

  3. lots of children do ‘poorly’ in mocks. My son’s school was extremely tight with marking. My son’s actual results were at least one grade up. They did to put a rocket up them!

  4. the Bucks test is near on impossible to pass without any tutoring. The children need to learn how to answer the questions, especially non verbal reasoning. They also need to
    understand exam timing.

  5. not all that glitters is gold. The teaching at my son’s grammar school is patchy at best. It’s a top 15 ‘outstanding’ state school and all I can say is god help children in lower ranking schools.

  6. I would say the GCSE and A level results are not down to the teaching. Tutoring is needed to get children up to standard. Post Covid, maths and sciences remaining well below parr and dhows in my son’s cohort.

  7. grammars/parents lead you to believe the children only get 8s & 9s and 6s, which are Bs are poor. Not one child who didn’t have a Spanish speaking parent got more than a 6. The number of Us was, I thought, unbelievable.

  8. About 20% don’t qualify for 6th form. You could hand pick most of these. They’re the ones taking teenage life by the horns. There was no way one of my neighbours boys was getting back in. He was never home. Always drinking. There’s a time snd a place.

  9. GCSE curriculums mostly kill subjects. My son started grammar an avid reader. He finished the lady English lit paper and swore he’d never read a book again. He was initially going to do English, geography and history A levels. A combination of the teachers and curriculum put an end to this.

  10. the reality is, a child at 11, however bright and promising is not the child at 16 or 18. My son did well in his GCSEs. He could have done better. A levels will be the same. Naturally bright kid. He’s also a naturally lazy kid. Lots are 🤷‍♀️

You are incorrect on point 1. The grading system is 1-9, with U sitting below this. You are confusing higher tier GCSE qualifications with the overall GCSE system.

Roomonthedustpan · 30/10/2023 09:16

Which county 11+?

Roomonthedustpan · 30/10/2023 09:15

@emmagow13 do you actually have a child in grammar?

  1. there are no grade 2 and 3. 4 is lowest then a U

  2. 6th form entry is on actual grades, not mocks

  3. lots of children do ‘poorly’ in mocks. My son’s school was extremely tight with marking. My son’s actual results were at least one grade up. They did to put a rocket up them!

  4. the Bucks test is near on impossible to pass without any tutoring. The children need to learn how to answer the questions, especially non verbal reasoning. They also need to
    understand exam timing.

  5. not all that glitters is gold. The teaching at my son’s grammar school is patchy at best. It’s a top 15 ‘outstanding’ state school and all I can say is god help children in lower ranking schools.

  6. I would say the GCSE and A level results are not down to the teaching. Tutoring is needed to get children up to standard. Post Covid, maths and sciences remaining well below parr and dhows in my son’s cohort.

  7. grammars/parents lead you to believe the children only get 8s & 9s and 6s, which are Bs are poor. Not one child who didn’t have a Spanish speaking parent got more than a 6. The number of Us was, I thought, unbelievable.

  8. About 20% don’t qualify for 6th form. You could hand pick most of these. They’re the ones taking teenage life by the horns. There was no way one of my neighbours boys was getting back in. He was never home. Always drinking. There’s a time snd a place.

  9. GCSE curriculums mostly kill subjects. My son started grammar an avid reader. He finished the lady English lit paper and swore he’d never read a book again. He was initially going to do English, geography and history A levels. A combination of the teachers and curriculum put an end to this.

  10. the reality is, a child at 11, however bright and promising is not the child at 16 or 18. My son did well in his GCSEs. He could have done better. A levels will be the same. Naturally bright kid. He’s also a naturally lazy kid. Lots are 🤷‍♀️

faffadoodledo · 29/10/2023 18:05

@emmagow13 well done your daughter then. But my knowledge of grammar entry is from the Tiffin area 15 or so years ago, and genuinely, tutoring was on an industrial scale. I can't see it'll be any better now.
I actually agree the system must let in some weak candidates. In fact one of DS's friends was tutored for two years and failed to get first choice uni and got let into insurance on compromised grades. From looking like a high flier at 11 he certainly wasn't by 18.

emmagow13 · 29/10/2023 16:18

Nope.
My child and def not tutored 🤷

faffadoodledo · 29/10/2023 14:33

jasminocereusbritannicus · 29/10/2023 14:24

So glad they don’t need to do 11+ around here. I think it’s horrible that children have to be tutored to “pass” a test.
When I took my 11+ back in the 70s I didn’t even know I was taking it! Everyone took it. I know now that I passed, but it was academic, because the grammar school my parents wanted me to go to, ceased to be one when I started there!

This happened to my husband! Took the 11+, passed, and entered a comprehensive. Great timing! Still went to Oxford and got a PhD though, so had no fear of his own children succeeding at a comprehensive.

jasminocereusbritannicus · 29/10/2023 14:24

So glad they don’t need to do 11+ around here. I think it’s horrible that children have to be tutored to “pass” a test.
When I took my 11+ back in the 70s I didn’t even know I was taking it! Everyone took it. I know now that I passed, but it was academic, because the grammar school my parents wanted me to go to, ceased to be one when I started there!